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Motor Location problem-63 Hawk

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  • Motor Location problem-63 Hawk

    Last Sunday SBCA96, Tom, visited to give me some pointers on restoration. Looking at the
    motor, he said it was too far forward, the power steering cannister is smack against the radiator shroud. From receipts that came with the Hawk, I know the tranny was rebuilt in 2002 and it appears when the motor was re-installed, it was put in an inch or so forward
    of the right location. Tom thought there were mounting holes for both a six and the V-8,
    put in at the factory and the last shop to lift out the engine picked the six motor holes.
    The mounts need replacing anyway so I should re-position the thing. Any guidance appreciated on confirming the motor is installed wrong and pitfalls to avoid in shoving the darn thing aft an inch or so. Also, I read somewhere that the rear mounts are different,one side to the other,but SI catalog shows rear mounts the same. Are they different on a 63 hawk?


    1950 Champion Starlight
    1963 Hawk GT
    Santa Barbara
    CA
    The 1950 Champion Starlight
    Santa Barbara
    CA

  • #2
    It goes in the passenger side rear set of holes.


    JDP
    Arnold Md.
    Studebaker On The Net
    http://stude.com
    My Ebay Items
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    64 GT hawk
    63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
    63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
    63 Avanti R1
    63 Daytona convert
    63 Lark 2 door
    63 Lark 2 door #2
    62 Lark 2 door
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    JDP Maryland

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    • #3
      Yah, I have never seen a Hawk with the engine so far forward, it was
      a little freaky looking. The passenger side front mount molded large
      washer was still bolted firmly in place. The mount has separated and
      slid forward on the rubber pads. I was pretty sure that the thick
      spacer went on the drivers side, but its been YEARS since I looked at
      a Stude auto. I dumped my Flight-o-matic in my Hawk for a TH700-R4.
      If my memory is correct, the trans mounts can't be bolted on opposite
      sides because the two holes are not centered, & the bellhousing has a
      machined surface that wont allow it?? No? The crossmember has two
      sets of slotted holes though, the front engine mounts have more then
      two sets of slotted holes - right? Looking at Dick's GT was bringing
      back a lot of memories of my Dad's 64 GT Hawk.

      I used to break those front mounts every couple of months on my Hawk.
      I am quite surprised that the Vendors havent upgraded them with a set
      of interlocking "hooked" studs inside the mold. To fix mine, I cut
      the studs off, and drilled all the way through, used a grade 5 bolt up
      from the bottom, tightened, and double nutted on top. His mounts are
      so crushed that they are too far gone to save.

      The only "pitfalls" you might encounter moving it back is that exhaust
      getting in the way. That added pipe makes sense now. Once its back
      to where it should be, your kick-down will work, and you will pick up
      50% more power since the gas pedal will move full distance!

      Tom

      '63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd do the same thing to the driver's side mount as Tom; but what I did with mine was take TWO rubber pieces and put one above the mount as well, so that rubber piece would be loaded in compression when the engine was torquing over. I figured that would result in better isolation of vibration than just a through bolt and what was left of the stock mount. I think I had to use a piece from a busted "R3" style mount as a regular one would have been too thick, and also cut it a little to slip into the mount bracket. I made sure to use a fresh nylock as doing this meant that the bolt would have to go up from underneath and I didn't want to take the chance that it would fall into the steering linkage.

        As for the engine sliding too far forward, all I can say is check the shop manual, it shows the proper position of the rear mounts and as JDP says the fronts should fit into the rear pass. side holes and not show any signs of having any significant fore-aft stress when installed.

        good luck

        nate

        --
        55 Commander Starlight
        http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
        --
        55 Commander Starlight
        http://members.cox.net/njnagel

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        • #5
          I did the same thing as Nate with my 259-powered M5, but used an upper mount from NAPA--a 1955, 56, or 57 Chevy front mount, if I remember correctly, but I can't seem to find the number. NAPA has several possibilities in their older books, complete with diminsions and a cupped washer for the top. All you have to do is find a part person that can use something other than a computer.

          Good luck

          jj

          Comment


          • #6
            Hot Wheelsr2
            Yes, please send the pics of proper engine mount hole locations.


            1950 Champion Starlight
            1963 Hawk GT
            Santa Barbara
            CA
            The 1950 Champion Starlight
            Santa Barbara
            CA

            Comment


            • #7
              So they CAN be swapped from side to side?? I thought that the spot on
              the bellhousing thats machined wouldnt allow it to bolt on, since the
              two holes arent centered in the bracket. I could sware that years ago
              I couldnt get one on, and then realized I was trying to put a right
              one on the left (or visa versa). Can you confirm for SURE that they
              can be swapped - or maybe you have already and my memory is wrong.
              Its literally been about 15 years since I have seen that setup.

              Good idea Nate on the isolation rubber! I did have some transfer to
              the frame, but I didnt care since I wasnt replacing them over & over!
              There is a lot to be desired with Stude V8 motor mounts! What did the
              R3 mounts look like?? My motor mount woes started with a peppy 259 in
              my 60 Hawk (engine transplant from a 64 Lark), so I cant even imagine
              an R3 lasting through one hard takeoff!!

              Oh, I forgot to mention, its a beautiful car, I brought my camera to
              take some pictures, but it was raining most the time I was there.

              Tom

              quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2from right to left, the mounts may be (can be) bolted on backwards, the result pushes the engine too far forward. Thats why there are 2 different part numbers.
              '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
              Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
              I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't think the "R3" mounts were really used on R3's that's just what people called them. they're about half the height of regular motor mounts but otherwise identical. I think they are actually the factory part to hang the front clip off the U-shaped brace on a late model ocnvertible.

                nate

                --
                55 Commander Starlight
                http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                --
                55 Commander Starlight
                http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank You, Hotwheels63r2, for the photos. "My Goodness" as Rummy would say. There are more holes than I could have imagined. No wonder the last shop to set the engine screwed up the placement. My manual is in the car 35 miles away so I don't know yet how much help it will be in finding the correct ones. From the photo , it looks like if I locate the front mounts
                  in the crossbar rear holes it will be correct as suggested earlier.

                  If the tranny is mounted correctly, then wouldn't the drive shaft only be partly inserted with the motor so far forward ?

                  Out of curiosity, anyone know why so many holes ? Seems four would be plenty.

                  1950 Champion Starlight
                  1963 Hawk GT
                  Santa Barbara
                  CA
                  The 1950 Champion Starlight
                  Santa Barbara
                  CA

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The driveshaft has a slip yoke, so it's designed to move fore and aft slightly anyway. I don't think you will find any damage there.

                    good luck

                    nate

                    --
                    55 Commander Starlight
                    http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                    --
                    55 Commander Starlight
                    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      N8, that would be NO, and NO!
                      Yes they were used on R3's for hood clearance. I have them in stock for R3 air box use & Supercharger installs that are too close to the hood.

                      NO they are not the core support to frame mounts for Wagonaire & '60-'64 Convertible, (those are smaller Dia.).

                      quote:Originally posted by N8N

                      I don't think the "R3" mounts were really used on R3's that's just what people called them. they're about half the height of regular motor mounts but otherwise identical. I think they are actually the factory part to hang the front clip off the U-shaped brace on a late model ocnvertible. nate
                      StudeRich
                      Studebakers Northwest
                      Ferndale, WA
                      StudeRich
                      Second Generation Stude Driver,
                      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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