Temp sender

[john grady]

Does anyone know the ohms range for stock 50 or 51 stude 6V unit? lots of confusion here; also thread size .

It is probably the same as gas gauge ohms

[Alan]

It is a thermistor the resistance changes with the temp.I don't know about 6's but the V8 is 3/8" taper pipe.

[john grady]

there is a lot of misinformation on these..including 6 and 12 v versions. i found out some cars use the same gauges and senders for both 6 and 12v , but the gauge voltage regulator gives about 5V average,in both cases, so it (regulator) is different for 6 or 12 V. That may mean some senders and gauges are the same, 6 or 12 V , But senders for various designs and brands of cars and gauges have at least 5 different ohm ranges, like 10 ohms hot, 75-100 cold, which i think is about what Studebakers are, and that is not far from Ford (10 to 73) . maybe Stude used Ford designs? I have heard 0 to 100 for studebaker too. Stude low ohms is hot, or gas gauge full ..why a shorted lead to ground cause gauge to go up all the way. You CANNOT run gauge without regulator, it will burn up.

Some GM go the other way, low ohms is cold. I know it is thermistor but unless you know ohms, and which direction gauge moves with current, and how much current, that does not help solving problem, right? But I appreciate trying to help...

From what I have been able to find out, and personal experience, gas gauge and temp gauge in any one car are usually physically identical gauges, run off same regulator, so resistance of gas tank float is a clue to range in ohms of temp gauge sender. After about 1970 , computers get into it, totally different design, high ohm thermistors, but they look like earlier ones. if you put one of those on, gauge will not move or barely move. Wrong match ups gives incorrect readings . Does anyone have ohms of gas gauge senders, for 6 and 12 V, E and F ? See if the same? Temp senders should be the same as gas gauge floats, i think.

can test hot in boiling water. I notice about ten threads about this, no one seems to have gotten to bottom of it. Lets do it together this time. Thanks, John

[leyrret]

Checking my NAPA book it does not list 51. The only two I can come up with are 57-64(states gauge and light type),43-51 ohms at 220F & 60-64(gauge type), 51-61 ohms at 220F. Not model specific. Both are 1/4" pipe.

[john grady]

those are close enough to interchange re: gauge part , sort of says 6 and 12V are not far apart, indicates 5V gauges , as 50-51 are definitely 5V.

Cold resistance would just be "high",wrong # means inaccuracy at cold end, probably not important as engine warms up, but usable at hot end..they vary a lot anyway.

Ford at 10 ohms seems less than Stude, though, if those numbers are right ; stude gauge would possible read too high when hot with Ford sender . I bought some Ford senders, 10 to 73 ohm going to play with this Possibly adding a resistor in series to Ford when hot will get stude gauge right when hot. I saw on a GM site where a person was advocating a small pot, wire wound , to set up Corvette gauges to be 'perfect" by setting a hidden knob, either leave that or replace with set # of ohms. . Chevy gas gauges are AWFUL.

More to come on this...

The more info the better on this. maybe someone will measure one and gas tank units, too, respectively from 6 and 12 v cars? .I have none available right now, but stock gauge and gas sending unit, equipped with brass Ford float, are working perfectly in 12V 51 with 5V solid state regulator.

[leyrret]

If you have a gauge and variable resistor(such as fuel sender) you should be able to determine values needed with ohmmeter

[john grady]

I agree, but I do not have the parts to measure now; now in car (gas tank) and sender is defective..

Sender is Available for about 60$ at a stude parts place. Ford one is 8$ at Rock auto.. Understanding this gauge thing may help us use common stuff rather than rareium..right??

[N8N]

fuel gauge at least is standard Stewart-Warner for 12V cars I know that much. Not sure about 6V, have never had to replace a 6V gauge or sender save for the temp sender in my '55 and I was able to find a NOS one.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[leyrret]

Looking in my old Motors manual it only shows AC, Ford/KIng-Seely, & Auto-lite temp gauges for cars between 1940-55. Perhaps S/W was mistakenly not included.
AC & Auto-lite function the same. High resistance when cold, low when hot. No values listed. The Ford/King-Seely uses heating coils/with bi-metalic strips instead of variable resistance.

[john grady]

Inside design of 58 ford and 50 stude are almost identical, on the gauge end ..Bi metal strip, wound with fine nichrome wire . I tested both, they both reach "F" at 5V, (despite 6 and 12 v ratings in car, with appropriate regulator) so that part (design function) is identical. However gauge of heater wire may be different, different MA current flows in sensor, calibration may be off . But if stude and Ford get to "low ohms" at 220 F , it will read hot or full, and be proportional at least around hot..what we need . What is low ohms and high in OHMS rather than Hi or low is what we need to know.

The 5V is not really 5V in car, as it is 6 or 12V turned on and off rapidly to average a 5V heating effect( note that heat goes as square of voltage!So one would expect 12 V to be on (time) like 1/4 of 6v) ) ; but some where I found out that 5V on steady is the same thing. By the way, polarity has nothing to do with heating effect..another thing that comes up on boards and is wrong.it makes no difference to gauge.(but it does to solid state regulators)

I found two adjusting pins or slots in gauges, for calibration. I think, but am not sure, that one sets "full" at 5V, then other sets zero, seem to interact some . I set up this way on Ford and Stude at Full end, @ 5V, both worked fine in car, Low end accuracy less important on temp sender, but on gas gauge, it matters a lot.

These things are very fragile inside, especially pointer and 'bearing" it is on. I got into this as i opened them to repaint orange.

I am not saying any of this is the answer, but questions around 6/12V, use of Stewart Warner or VDO etc can be answered correctly. My 50 stude car had a Chrysler sensor, gauge did not move, all wrong, but someone tried. For instance, maybe Ford (common) gas tank sending units or aftermarket can be made to work in Stude with stude gauges, or SW gauges

[StudeRich]

Well John it sounds like you have become quite the "expert" on these gauges so you are probably capable of answering your own question now, or finding out. [^]

One thing that bothers me however, you are saying that all gauges require a "voltage regulator"! [:0] I know that other makes like Chrysler use a voltage limiter on the power lead to their Fuel and Temp. gauges, if that is what you mean, Studebakers do not have any.

If this is some kind if coil winding inside the gauge, I could believe it, but otherwise the "regulator" does not exist on Studebakers.


StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

[john grady]

Like I said Rich, I do not know what is in 12v Studebakers..and just like you say in your post, trying to find out . (See first post) Fords and Chryslers have this regulator, and in some cars it is inside one of the gauges.(60 Chrysler) If you do not do something to compensate, when you speed up engine, on charge, the needles will climb, as heat goes as square of voltage. So, do stude gauges rise and fall with cigar lighter and reving engine? Maybe not; then they must have other compensatory stuff inside? I never had a stock stude in recent years, it already had 12V in a 50, and this solid state 5V regulator chip was therefore not stock. However, I would gently point out , expert or not, it works perfectly ..set at 5V with stock 50 stude gauges on 12V , and Fords and Chryslers are definitely like this, but not solid state. (67 dart) Some of us might have 6v studes with 12v systems? And can use this info? It would make sense that if one has an investment in gauge technology all sorted out, at the time of the 12 v switch, that using 5-6V regulated also keeps gauges accurate on 12V , ---by deriving 5-6 V from 12 with a thermal regulator.I would do that , if I were the designer.Chrysler and Ford did; at least 58 Ford did.

So, how many ohms? I don't have the parts to measure. Never miss an opportunity to learn something: It is not a "limiter" (?) , it is a thermal regulator. Its purpose is to hold the gauges steady as voltage varies. So, Even if not from "experts" you just learned something.

[BobGlasscock]

hmm, call me silly and uneducated, but I always thought that the ONE voltage regulator provided by the factory controlled the "hot" side of the voltage produced by the generator. So all hot wires in the car were regulated by one regulator. And I think all guages are independently grounded, so if the voltage is regulated and the guage is grounded, then the gauge will read steadily.

'50 Champion, 1 family owner

[leyrret]

The only temperature gauge in this book using the heating coil and bi-metal strip is the Ford/King Seeley.



Checked a later book. To all interested there are constant voltage(uses regulator) and variable voltage gauges. The books states the later
applies to Stewart-Warner, AC & Autolite systems.

[john grady]

for sure, Ford and 50 stude, and 60-67 (at least) Mopar are bimetal. I took all three apart..no question.