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4bbl Carby and Dual Exhaust

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  • 4bbl Carby and Dual Exhaust

    Hi All,
    I noticed the following in a Studebaker-Packard press release (October 9, 1959) "For those desiring more power, dual exhausts and four-barrel carburetors are available optionally on V-8 models."

    Now, considering that Studebelle has the 259 engine and single exhaust, does the 4 bbl carby and dual exhaust make that much difference? I just want to have a nice smooth driving experience, not build a hot rod or race car. Have heard that the dual exhaust improves fuel economy, I imagine the 4bbl carby does the opposite?

    Am just collecting ideas for her (eventual) restoration.

    I realize that Jim Pepper has published pieces in TW about the 259 engine, does anyone know if there is a book with this data that I can purchase?

    John Clements
    Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
    Lockleys South Australia
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/3188334...58071811/show/
    John Clements
    Christchurch, New Zealand

  • #2
    Hi John, remember that very many mid 1950's Studebakers: like '55 Commanders, Presidents, Speedsters, '56 Power Hawks, '56-'58 Commanders were ordered with or came standard with Carter WCFB 4 Barrel Carbs. and they performed very well, all with 259 Engines! [^] Usually you can get as good or better mileage IF you can resist always standing on it!

    I remember Dad surprised a lot of GM and Ford product drivers when he slipped our brand new '56 Power Hawk with Power Kit, into low and let her go! [^]


    StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

    Comment


    • #3
      That sounds good Rich, just another item added to the list for purchase (smile).

      John Clements
      Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
      Lockleys South Australia
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/3188334...58071811/show/
      John Clements
      Christchurch, New Zealand

      Comment


      • #4
        I put dual exhaust and a 4 barrel (AFB) on my '58 Commander with 259. The difference is very noticeable, and makes the grin on my face that much wider.

        Matthew Burnette
        Hazlehurst, GA

        Comment


        • #5
          I've seen an improvement in fuel mileage, usually around 2 mpg. when I've installed a four barrel carb and dual exhaust. I've been using Edelbrock 500 cfm carbs with good results. I've found that you can lean the fuel mixture just a bit with those carbs and still have good performance. The problem with the new carbs is that you can't use the original Stude air cleaner. Bud

          Comment


          • #6
            quote:Originally posted by Bud

            The problem with the new carbs is that you can't use the original Stude air cleaner. Bud
            Hey Bud, how's things in beautiful downtown Hawthorne, my alma mater?

            We now have a solution for that problem, albeit a bit pricey. A new R1 Air Cleaner with the 5 1/8" Edelbrock adapter base! [] It looks way better than Standard type, and performs better with that Police Intercepter low restriction sound! [^]


            StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              The 259 I have in my 53 has the power kit. I am
              in the process of removing and installing a
              Offenhauser kit. The whole setup is for sale.
              Intake manifold, WCFB carb., oil bath air cleaner
              and bracket. $250.00

              Tex E. Grier

              Comment


              • #8
                This reminds me of the time I put an HEI distributor in my 302 Ford. The engine makes more power and of course accelerates faster. The reason is NOT simply because the spark is a lot stronger. It's in the advance curve. Same deal with Edelbrock carbs. they perform better not because of CFM, but because of fuel metering. A four barrel can beat a two barrel on mpg because the primaries are smaller than the two barrel causing increased intake charge velocity and thereby increasing throttle response. You could probably increase power and response by quickening the advance curve and at the same time limiting its total travel. An adapter with a larger two barrel will make big changes. A muffler can make a big difference. Some mufflers are very restrictive. A dual exhaust is effectively using two mufflers; therein lies it greatest advantage to provide increased flow.. It's like using two resistance wires instead of one, thereby doubling the value. Two mufflers=half the resistance.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A dual exhaust system on a moderately sized six or V8 effectively also banks the cylinders, effectively turning one engine into two separate engines on one crankshaft. The flow, instead of joining two pipes into one, instead runs more and direct separate circuits out the rear of the car. It can improve the efficiency of the engine in that respect. There was a caveat and we had this way back with the four cylinder guys, you must match the exhaust system pipe diameter to displacement of the cylinders you had to bank. The Honda guys would put these overly large dual exhaust systems and then complain about loss of power, because the much larger pipes were causing a loss in the scavenging effect from each side, or the two cylinders that they had to bank. We we're recommending if they wanted dual exhaust to literally put pea shooter diameter pipes out the back, since they matched the displacement they were banking.

                  [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left][img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg[/img=left][IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
                  [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

                  1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                  1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                  1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                  1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    StudeRich, California is slowly sliding into a giant sinkhole because of the politicians in Sacremento on a money spending spree. I used the top of the air cleaner on my Avanti and the bottom of a late model aftermarket air cleaner. The problem with that was finding an element that was tall enough to allow for proper air flow while keeping the air cleaner from hitting the underside of the hood. Bud

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dual exhaust on a conventional V-8 will work as two separate engines only if 1-4-6-7 are on one side and 2-3-5-9 are on the other side. This type of design creates a "180 degree" exhaust. Four cylinder engines fire every half revolution. One bank of a V-8 is an odd-fire four cylinder, so the exhaust on either the left or right cannot effectively scavenge exhaust, without the addition of the four cylinders from the other side. The extra pipes aren't what contribute the most power in dual exhaust systems; the same could be accomplished by using pipe adapters and installing a truck muffler. The muffler is what causes the most back pressure; not the pipes. Cheap mufflers just use a lot of ninety degree bends to quiet the exhaust. This is what contributes to back pressure. Look how some mufflers have the inlet and outlet at the same end. By running all eight pulsations out one pipe, you can run a less restrictive muffler and it will be quieter than duals. Ever hear a four cylinder without a muffler? Given the same cubes, an eight cylinder is quieter.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        On the 259", a 4-bbl and dual exhausts are worth about 10-15hp, or 8% - noticeable but not overwhelming. Use a stainless steel exhaust. Dual exhausts rust out three times quicker than a single.

                        thnx, jack vines

                        PackardV8
                        PackardV8

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I bet you could get 10-15 hp out of a performance electronic distributor; plus an increase in mileage.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it. The car will have to wait for a while, once dad has passed the funds will be available to restore her. (now, I hope that's a while but at 87 on April 25 who can say). As this is the only Studebaker that I want I intend to do a body off frame, everything stripped - cleaned- repaired/replaced and reassembled. She'll be a hybrid, Australian "Smiths" brand heater (yes that Smiths, the British mob that made instruments)with the American upholstery design and all the accessories I can locate that were possible to have from the dealer. Heard too many stories of "surprises" and don't want that, let's find out the problems and fix them.

                            Hope Tex can sell his setup, as I can't afford it at present, will see what's available at restoration time.

                            John Clements
                            Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
                            Lockleys South Australia
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/3188334...58071811/show/
                            John Clements
                            Christchurch, New Zealand

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              <The problem with the new carbs is that you can't use the original Stude air cleaner.>


                              But you could make a nice air cleaner with a small Stude hub cap and a 10" edelbrock air cleaner


                              101st Airborne Div. 326 Engineers Ft Campbell Ky.

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