Freeze plug questions

[jeryst]

I started my 57 GH for the first time today. I revved it up several times, and was immeidately rewarded with a floor full of antifreeze.

Upon inspection, I could see that one of the freeze plugs in the side of the engine had blown out. Appearantly, someone had put a new plug in, and used silicone to keep it in. Either they put the wrong size plug in, or they didnt install it correctly. Obviously, it was not a tight fit, so they chose to use silicone to keep it in place.

When I look in the hole, I can see a shoulder. So now I have some questions.

1. What is the proper size freeze plug for the 289 motor?
2. Should it be the deep type, or the shallow type with no edge? The one that was in it, was the shallow saucer type.
3. Is an expandable plug better than the solid type? Will an expandable type work with the "shoulder" in the hole?
4. When the plug is put in, does the dome go toward the inside or toward the outside of the block? If the dome goes toward the outside, is it supposed to be hammered inward to get the plug to expand?

As usual, any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Tom Bredehoft]

No. 4 yes, ideally something with a 1 to 2 inch radius, not an easy thing to find, but you don't want to use a screwdriver. Sorry, I don't know the size, and can't find it.

The expansion plugs are difficult to install in the car. The originals were OK, but the modern ones don't have easily wrenched pressed hexagons.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
'55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
(Under Construction 571 hrs.)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

[N8N]

If it is the original engine, it'll be the "disc" style. They changed to the "cup" style at the same time as the addition of the full flow oil filter (mid-62)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[Rerun]

The disc type freeze plug should be installed on the ridge with the dome out, then punched to expand them. That is fine if the engine is out, but can be nearly impossible to install with the motor in place.

Dorman Products makes a copper expansion plug that works well in close quarters. I have had good luck with these over the years. You set them against the ridge, hold the outer hex with a wrench while turning the acorn nut with another wrench to expand the plug. IIRC, the Studebaker V8 uses a 1-1/2" plug.




Jim Bradley
Lewistown PA
'78 Avanti II

[Alan]

1 1/2" shallow cup. I prefer the brass ones and put some Permatex no. 2 around the edges and tap it in straight with an old socket that just fits tight in the cup.

[Tom Bredehoft]

The new "Made in China" Dorman plugs are difficult to work. I had the engine on a stand,put vice grips on the big hex and had considerable difficulty holding the hex while turning the acorn nut.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
'55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
(Under Construction 571 hrs.)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

[Lark Parker]

quote:Originally posted by Tom B

The new "Made in China" Dorman plugs are difficult to work. I had the engine on a stand,put vice grips on the big hex and had considerable difficulty holding the hex while turning the acorn nut.
Tom Bredehoft

The new ones use METRIC wrenches and the plugs did not hold up in operation for me. I blew three of them out at high rpm -- three separate occurrences. They are difficult to install as if you overtighten they are designed to shear the bolt. With an under tighten they blow out.
After blowing them out I put a torque wrench on a new one to measure the shear point and it was so low I couldn't accept that as something I wanted to use. The shear point was so low it did not seem credible to give enough expansion hold at the supposedly tightest setting.
I got rid of all of them and I won't use them any more.
Maybe someone else has had better luck.

The old Dormans are good if you can find them.
LP

[Rerun]

quote:The old Dormans are good if you can find them.
LP

jeryst,
If your leaking plug is located where you can't get a swing to whack the disk type, let me know. I can send you one of the "old" Dorman plugs.

Jim Bradley
Lewistown PA
'78 Avanti II

[StudeRich]

quote:Originally posted by Alan

1 1/2" shallow cup. I prefer the brass ones and put some Permatex no. 2 around the edges and tap it in straight with an old socket that just fits tight in the cup.

Wrong! as everyone else has said, a '57 Golden Hawk with the original engine gets the domed disc. type 1 1/2in. freeze plugs, not the cup type like a late '62-'64 uses.

The ledge in the block is too shallow to get any of the parallel sides of the cup type to seal.

[Alan]

Sorry Rich, I haven't built anything but full flows for more than 30 years, forgetting about the old stuff.

[jeryst]

quote:Originally posted by Rerun

quote:The old Dormans are good if you can find them.
LP

jeryst,
If your leaking plug is located where you can't get a swing to whack the disk type, let me know. I can send you one of the "old" Dorman plugs.

Jim Bradley
Lewistown PA
'78 Avanti II

Its the one in the center on the passenger side. Since the engine is still in the car, and the exhaust manifold is in the way, it looks like its going to be a real bear. Probably why the other one wasnt installed correctly.

I sent you an email.

[Rerun]

Since I don't have a Studebaker V8 handy, can someone verify the diameter of freeze plug that jeryst needs for his 57 GH? I want to make sure that I have the right one for him.

Jim Bradley
Lewistown PA
'78 Avanti II

[rusty nut garage]

1 1/2 inch.
The new made in china types will work, but you have to preload freeze plug, what I mean by that is prior to installing it put just enough turns on the center to make it snug going in. Then you can install it and the fact that it is now snug it will hold the freeze plug and allow the center to be tightened. Don't overtighten the center as has been mentioned in the earlier thread the bolt will twist off. The ones Chuck Collins sell actually has a instruction sheet telling you the max # of turns on the center bolt, but I don't recall what it is. I'm at work (yeah right) I could check when I get home, email me if you still need that info.
These things are really pretty slick, I don't like the looks of them but on a V8 you won't see them anyway. ITs a shame they don't redesigne the center hex that your supposed to be able to hold. It is made with such a shallow hex and radiused that you can't get a wrench on them to hold them. This offshore $h*t is really aggrevating. Part of the problem we're in in my opinion but I guess that belongs over on the stovehuggers group.
I recommmend you try these expandable, I've hade very limited success witht the old style shallow cup freeze plugs with the block in the car. Even after I get them in odds are it will have a leak.

quote:Originally posted by Rerun

Since I don't have a Studebaker V8 handy, can someone verify the diameter of freeze plug that jeryst needs for his 57 GH? I want to make sure that I have the right one for him.

Jim Bradley
Lewistown PA
'78 Avanti II

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
53 2R6 289 5SpdOD (driver)
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[64V-K7]

The "chinese" Dorman ones work ok, if you make a shallow tool to tighten the hexnut and put a bead of Red Lok-tite around the circumference, before installing on the land


Bob Johnstone
www.studebaker-info.org

64 GT Hawk
55 President State Sedan
70 Avanti (R3)

[jimmijim8]

Bob, do you mean like grinding the head of a wrench to a smaller thickness? jimmijim