Engine: Swap suggestions

[New_StudieB_owner]

Hello all, I'm working on a 1950 champion 4 door, I wanted to keep it original but simply don't have deep enough pockets in honesty, so the question is what have y'all swapped into your Studes, I'm thinking SBC but curious if something like a 455 would fit without modifications to body ECT. I know I will have to make mounts and such just don't wanna cut the body up. Thanks in advance!

[bezhawk]

If you have to tools or the $$$ anything can fit. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Being a Champion, I would consider a more mild swap. At least fuel injected for reliability and to eliminate future fuel issues.

[Big Dan]

LOL! If you have the tools and money, you can restore it back to original!

[6hk71400]

Hi Christopher,

Welcome to the forum. You will find here years of talent working with Studebaker's both original and modified.

Looking at your original post I hope I can offer some help.

The 1950 Champion was a light duty car with a weight of around 2800 pounds. It was designed for light duty and economical use. The Champion had a light duty one year only suspension. The late Early Haley was an advisor for Turning Wheel and had mentioned the 50 Champion was somewhat fragile when pressed to the limit.

To modify your 1950 Champion here is what you need to consider. You will need to upgrade the suspension to accept the newer power plant. The brakes, if you have driven the car, will need upgrade the brake system all around. The wheels are 4 bolt, the 1951 to 1966 used the kingpin system.

You also mentioned you are of limited funds. This is important for all of us. So lets break down so far what we are looking as far as cost. Keep in mind, several here have echoed that what you figure for cost, whether restore or modify, what you figure double the cost figure.

Suspension: 4000 to 6000 dollars
Brakes: 3000 to 4000 dollars
Engine and transmission: 5,000 to the moon.
We are at $15,000 easily for a car, that modified will maybe return that if you should have to sell it. You will have to find someone that will want a car exactly as you built the car.

If you have a 455 engine are you considering using that power plant? The 1950-51 Studebaker is an iconic model. There are several instances where guys have torn it apart and then are discouraged and have a garage full of parts that will probably never hit the road again.

If you can, take some pictures, download on your computer the upload the attachment by clicking on the lower left to upload the picture. That will give everyone a better idea of your car and what you are working to accomplish.

Good luck. I hope I am not to be discouraging. Owning an old Studebaker can be very exhilarating and at the same a bit frustrating. Regardless, welcome again to the forum.

Bob Miles
The good outweighs the not so good

[New_StudieB_owner]

Hey Bob, was simply searching for a donor car and was able to find one with a 455 and was just curious on that part, I will upload pics this weekend to show what I'm working with, I have 2 flat head 6's and both were seized. After freeing them up and tearing them down they both have heavy damage in the cylinders and valve seats. And one is cracked badly, I had hoped to make one out of the 2 but simply cannot get it worked out. I would need to fully rebuild it and would be cheaper on my side to find a donor for around 1000.00 than rebuild kits for the motor and trans. I have already aquired my body seals and glass, was planning on upgrading the suspension with the donor vehicle as well as steering, rear end ECT. That's the current situation as of now

[gordr]

Number one: the engine is of minor concern. Make sure the car can stop and steer safely. If you want to restore the car, and have it look nice you are looking at bodywork and paint, possibly glass and rubbers and window channels, and also interior. All of these run big dollars. Like Bob says, the brakes, steering gear, transmission, and rear axle were all chosen to work with a 90 HP Champion engine (which had been around since 1939). Any big increase in engine power or weight will necessitate upgrading those parts.

A fair number of folks have done an S10 frame swap on these Champions. You can find Chevy S10 pickups with wheelbase and track width close to the Champion's specs, and simply put the Champion body onto the S10 frame. Of course some fabricating of mounts, etc. will be required. But in one fell swoop, you get a more powerful engine (the 4.3 V6 being a fine choice), overdrive transmission, either auto or manual, disc brakes, power steering, and other modern conveniences. And done right, the car will still present a stock appearance. And you probably could drop a 455 Olds into an S10 frame, if that was a major goal.

[bensherb]

I agree with gorgr. The big issue with the '50 is the light duty front suspension and the 73 year old brakes. If you have the skills and tools to do the work yourself you can easily cut Bob's cost estimates in half or more. I've built entire cars for less than his estimates for just one item. I do however do EVERYTHING myself, except install windshields (too easy to break and if the pro breaks it he replaces it , not me).

Another approach , other than the S10, would be a Mustang II front suspension, and Ford 8" or 9", Dana 44, or GM 10 or 12 bolt rear end with whatever engine. Or , a Camero , Nova ,etc... front clip. Just cut the frame roll the GM clip in place, weld it together then make brackets to mount the front sheet metal.

[Topper2011]

Just wondering if your original engine/trans is so far gone or missing you have no choice but to swap in something? Not trying to discourage you, but sometimes it's more cost effective to work with what you have.

[New_StudieB_owner]

I have 2 seperate engine, both with block damage, I had planned on using the 2 to make 1 good but the machining costs alone plus rebuild kit are just too expensive, I was unable to get the transmission freed up, all but the housing is pretty much shot

[yeroldad]

ANTHING but a chuvy!

[Jeffry Cassel]

How about an Allison V-1720?

[Big Dan]

Oh YEAH! I love it when you talk "dirty!" Ever work on one of those? I did one summer - made by MAYTAG!

[Alan]

I have worked on a number of 1710's.

[PackardV8]

Hello all, I'm working on a 1950 champion 4 door, I wanted to keep it original but simply don't have deep enough pockets in honesty, so the question is what have y'all swapped into your Studes, I'm thinking SBC but curious if something like a 455 would fit without modifications to body ECT. I know I will have to make mounts and such just don't wanna cut the body up. Thanks in advance!

As several have mentioned, there's literally no part on a '50 Champion strong enough to withstand the strain and speed of a 455" anything, so you'd need all-new running gear and be left with just sheet metal; not that that's a bad thing. From having done way too many engine/trans/frame swaps, there's no way they're less expensive than fixing one thing at a time back to original. Your car, your money, your decisions; just don't go into it thinking building a street rod is less expensive than maintaining the stock gear.

jack vines

[Ross]

And actually, you could have a lot of fun with the car and not have to mod every component if you shoved in the power train from some old Nissan or Toyota Pickup truck. Some stone reliable 4 cylinder with a 5 speed hung behind it would probably fit nicely.

Inexplicably Studebaker designed the front suspension of the car for its intended power and usage with no thought or tripling horsepower or doubling G forces in the corners. In spite of this stunning lack of foresight the front suspension on my mostly stock 50 is still quite OK at 107K with all of its factory components still in place.

[6hk71400]

And actually, you could have a lot of fun with the car and not have to mod every component if you shoved in the power train from some old Nissan or Toyota Pickup truck. Some stone reliable 4 cylinder with a 5 speed hung behind it would probably fit nicely.

Inexplicably Studebaker designed the front suspension of the car for its intended power and usage with no thought or tripling horsepower or doubling G forces in the corners. In spite of this stunning lack of foresight the front suspension on my mostly stock 50 is still quite OK at 107K with all of its factory components still in place.

The 1950 Champion was in the opinion of the late Earle Haley a stop gap model. In 1951 both the Champion and Commander (except the Land Cruiser) used the same suspension, wheel base and body except for the dash. The Champion went from 112 inch wheelbase to 115 inch wheelbase. The Commander with a 200 pound savings and the 120 bhp V8 was a very lively car compared to the 1950 model with a 119 inch wheelbase.

The 1951 Champion had to move a Commander body and weight with 85 horsepower. This is just a history background which does not answer the question of what to use. Several people that opined the 1951 up models are better suited to use a different power plant swap than the 1950. I think it would be good to have people answer this question that have modified a 1950 model Champion with what power plant and what modifications and what cost to help with the decision process. Speak up.

Bob Miles
Inquiring minds want to know

[RadioRoy]

Even the frame of a 1950 Champion is too light to handle any increased horsepower. For bolt-on modifications, the 1951 is a better choice, as that is the year they finally settled on the frame/suspension/steering that would last more or less until the end.

Of course, that does not do the OP much good.

It would be a shame for another 1950 Champion to be lost by being disassembled and then left that way, once the realization sinks in about what can and cannot be done cheaply/easily.

I really like the idea of a four banger and a five speed from a rear wheel drive compact pickup truck.

[gordr]

Even the frame of a 1950 Champion is too light to handle any increased horsepower. For bolt-on modifications, the 1951 is a better choice, as that is the year they finally settled on the frame/suspension/steering that would last more or less until the end.

Of course, that does not do the OP much good.

It would be a shame for another 1950 Champion to be lost by being disassembled and then left that way, once the realization sinks in about what can and cannot be done cheaply/easily.

I really like the idea of a four banger and a five speed from a rear wheel drive compact pickup truck.

In which case using the entire rolling chassis from the truck makes a lot of sense. All the drivetrain parts are already used to working together, you sidestep the issue of the "weak" Champion frame, and you get more modern steering and brakes, too. I think OP lives in Florida, and possibly the salt air has rusted most of those old small pickups. You still see them here in AZ, but it's hard to find a cheap one for a donor car; they still get used as trucks, and are sought after.

[bensherb]

"In which case using the entire rolling chassis from the truck makes a lot of sense."

That's what I did with my '54 Chevy wagon. It's on a '75 Ford F100 chassis, that I shortened 4 1/2". I'm using all the truck running gear 390 engine, C6 trans, 9" rear end, front suspension, steering and brakes. I did change the drive shaft to one from a '65 T bird because it was 4 1/2" shorter. I even used the Gauges, wiring harness, fuel tank and parking brake assembly from the truck too. I would have used the steering column too but went with a tilt one I had from a '65 AMC Ambassador instead.

The trick to doing this is to find a truck with a narrow enough track width. It's relatively east to shorten or lengthen a wheel base but hard to narrow a track width. Though some adjustment can be had with wheel offsets.

[bensherb]

I really like the idea of a four banger and a five speed from a rear wheel drive compact pickup truck.

Me too, It sounds like a good compromise that will work with the existing suspension. A Toyota or the like 4 cylinder would likely be lighter than the stock engine and have a little more HP too.

[DEEPNHOCK]

Suggestion.......
If you don't have deep enough pockets for a stock rebuild... You should seriously realize your pockets need to be even deeper for a re-power with a different brand/engine.
Everything will need to be changed and the replacement engine will be the only inexpensive thing in the swap.
Steering, brakes, exhaust, rewiring, transmission, driveshaft, possibly a diff (if the engine is bigger)... Even wheels and tires.
Search out a bolt in stock replacement (good used, or rebuilt same).
You are at a good point. The beginning. Plan your work. Work your plan. Use all your available resources (Here, Stude vendors....)
Have fun!
Jeff

[Big Dan]

Man, ain't that the truth. My Ford F1 Restoration cost me more than a new BMW!