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  • Engine: PCV conversion

    Has anybody converted down draft to PCV on an early partial flow 289 in a 1962 GT Hawk?
    Peter Bishop

  • #2
    Yep, 'cept in this case it was a 1957 truck.
    JT

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    • #3
      Some 62 GT came from the factory with partial flow and PCV. If no one offers any help, I will take a picture when I return home in December.
      78 Avanti RQB 2792
      64 Avanti R1 R5408
      63 Avanti R1 R4551
      63 Avanti R1 R2281
      62 GT Hawk V15949
      56 GH 6032504
      56 GH 6032588
      55 Speedster 7160047
      55 Speedster 7165279

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      • #4
        Piece -o -cake; just remove the road draft tube and replace it with the PCV cap that the '62s that came with a PCV had. Also replace the closed breather cap, if yours is closed, with an open one that can breath. The PCV should flow toward the carb/manifold.

        My '62 came to me with the PCV cap and valve. I removed it and the valley pan an d replaced it with a '64 valley pan which has a threaded bung instead of the PCV cap. I ran a hose from that bung to manifold vacuum with a PCV in the hose. Most carbs have a large manifold vacuum port that can be used, I used a vacuum port in the intake manifold. To go a step further I put a bung in the block off plate where the oil fill tube is on earlier engines and ran a hose from it through the PCV to manifold vacuum as well. I also replaced my original open breather caps with closed ones that have a tube on them and ran a hose from both of them to breather filters I added to the air filter assembly.

        At times of low RPM/ high vacuum, crankcase vapors are pulled into the intake manifold to be burned via vacuum. At times of High RPM/ low vacuum, crankcase vapors are pulled into the intake to be burned by high airflow through the air filter assembly into the carb.

        This is my set up. First pic PCV on top of manifold with hose going to "T" fitting then to valley pan. Second pic, hose from "T" goes to oil fill block off at front of engine.
        Click image for larger version

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        Breather caps with hoses to air filter assembly.
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        • #5
          Peter, are you running a WCFB carb, or something else?

          On the WCFB, there’s a threaded vacuum port on the back that will accept a PCV valve. Use that along with the factory adapter that takes the place of the road draft tube. Easy peasy. If you need the parts, call me.

          If you have a different carburetor, that’ll likely change where the PCV valve goes.

          Click image for larger version

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          • #6
            I'm using the M/E Wagner Adjustable duel flow PCV valve. Tunable, cleanable and you can rebuild it if needed. I use the inline adapter and have it mounted on the firewall. I works really well once you dial it in with your vacuum gauge. Check out the link....lots of good tech and pictures of various installs if your interested in something like this.

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            • #7
              Wouldn't you question some Unknown Co. called M/E Wagner who says THEY Designed & Mfg'd. this High Tech, High Quality Item, and it turns out to be a Moroso?
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner
              SDC Member Since 1967

              Comment


              • Hawk GT SS
                Hawk GT SS commented
                Editing a comment
                The "Moroso" part that you are referring to is a baffled oil trap breather, not the PCV valve. I can see how you might be confused as it is placed where a PCV valve might traditionally be installed. As stated above, I mounted the PCV valve on the firewall, it is the billet machined aluminum tube at that location in the picture. M/E Wagner is very well known in the street performance crowd. It is a very high quality part made/machined in the USA by a family owned business in Pennsylvania. If you click on the link provided above you will get a better idea of what it is and how it works.. I have been using it for over a year now with excellent results.

                For the restoration guys there is a 1913 Bugatti Type 22 pictured with the M/E Wagner PCV valve cleverly hidden to the point only someone who really knew these things would catch it. The "customer's rides" section has this and other really nice installs.

            • #8
              Peter, I seem to recall your 62GT has a WCFB. Regardless of carb type, post number 6 is easiest, simplest, and best way to go. IMHO. It will get rid of those nauseous fumes that come up into the car while sitting at a red light, idling, and will generally keep the insides of the motor cleaner. However, if you are a speed demon, and like to run with pedal to the metal at 3500-4500 RPM, the piston blobby will outrun the PCV, and you' get those fumes in the car, and a little blow by around the oil filler neck. I recall you are a sensible driver, so post number 6 is best solution. Again, IMHO.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by JoeHall View Post
                I recall you are a sensible driver, so post number 6 is best solution. Again, IMHO.
                Are you sure you don't mean post #5 Joe?

                Run a breather hose into the air cleaner assembly to get rid of those fumes in the car, and the oil on the underside of your hood, at higher RPMs.


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                • #10
                  Note: This is my opinion and one can take it or leave it. My carb is not stock, it's from an AMC. Valve covers have a tube slipped over original to facilitate the use of more common oil filler caps. Also, function has taken over from form, many don't like hoses going everywhere. That said, it's just a matter of plumbing.

                  I have researched this so many times and come to the same conclusion. Pulling fumes from the oil pan would be best, as it would help the oil return downwards, and the fumes would not try to pass the oil coming down, while the fumes are traveling on their way up.

                  The problem is, it's not usually easy for everyone to do this. So, if one is to run a PCV setup to pull crankcase fumes then a good setup is to use the vacuum source from the front of the carb, using the front 2 barrels of a 4bbl carb. Pulling from the existing valley cover. Also, using the 2 oil filler caps, that each have a hose connection, to the bottom of the air cleaner, somewhere in between the carburetor and filter. That way one has the crankcase fumes taken care off, and not just when the secondaries open, and when there is little vacuum to pull those fumes the oil filler cap route takes care of those fumes that want to escape under pressure, also aided by the draft, slight vacuum, caused inside the air cleaner.

                  Porting it to the manifold is problematic as it can dump the rich fumes to a few cylinders and bias the air fuel mix to those cylinders. Porting it to the rear of the carburetor is easy but also problematic as it does not receive the same vacuum as constantly as the front 2 primaries.

                  One can swap the early valley cover to the later style, 64, that has the threaded port. Or, do what was suggested, and use the 62-63 style part to use a PCV.

                  The PCV device mentioned in post 6 is new to many but has been around for a few years. I don't have one, but would be better than the original supplied.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by Felix; 11-19-2022, 08:03 AM.

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                  • #11
                    Originally posted by bensherb View Post

                    Are you sure you don't mean post #5 Joe?

                    Run a breather hose into the air cleaner assembly to get rid of those fumes in the car, and the oil on the underside of your hood, at higher RPMs.

                    Yes post number 5. Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Felix; My PCV system is much as you describe. The hose going to the oil filler block off plate has a direct route to the oil pan. the other side of the "T" going to the valley pan gets the fumes that filter up there. I also have breather filters on the hoses from the breather caps to the air filter inside the air filter assembly.

                      If I believe my O2 sensors for my AFR meters having the PCV going directly into the manifold makes no difference in AFR, between cylinder banks.

                      Also, the large vacuum fitting at the bottom of most carbs is manifold vacuum , not venturi vacuum so it makes no difference if its on the primary or secondary side of the carb, or if it's a 1, 2 or 4 barrel carb. The Carter carb copy I use to have on my 289 had that big port on both the front and rear of the carb, but they were still both manifold vacuum.

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                      • #13
                        bensherb; I hope your system works as you plan. The thing about the secondaries is from what I gleaned reading others experience with inside the rear of the manifold being more susceptible to oily build up. Maybe just anecdotal, and coincidental, and not from the PCV. Either way, I would prefer to introduce it higher up and more evenly distributed than close to two cylinders. Do you have an AFR sensor for each bank? If you do, and see no difference, then it's fine.

                        The placement of the port in the oil filler block-off is could be better. At the time I had a filler tube installed, but since I made an aluminum plate for it. I have tried a few designs, with different baffles, as I was using filters on the rocker covers instead of caps. As the carb I used has the front port, for the PCV, I might use your idea, if you don't mind. I had thought about it before, but was not able to because of the filler tube. Another note about that area is, as long as the oil from the gears doesn't splash up and hit the supplied PCV vacuum port and then suck a slug of oil into the PCV valve, all will be fine.

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                        As a side note; A guy I used to work with on Studebaker stuff drilled and tapped a hole on the side of the engine block, adjacent to the top water pump manifold attachment location, to route the partial filter oil onto the side of the top, fiber, gear, as to not introduce it into the filler tube, incase of blowby. That was when a partial flow filter was being used.

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                        • #14
                          For what it's worth. (link below)
                          Last edited by Hawk GT SS; 11-22-2022, 07:36 AM.

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                          • #15
                            And. (see link below)

                            I would also be very interested in any solutions to the baffle issue after removing the oil fill tube and using that location for a PCV valve. I looked at that option but deduced that a baffle might be more engineering than I wanted to do and no baffle would probably lead to excessive oil consumption through the PCV valve. Anyone handled this issue?
                            Last edited by Hawk GT SS; 11-22-2022, 08:33 AM.

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