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Turbo’d Commander 6

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  • #16
    FWIW, essential to the survival of a turbo Commander is a precision-built long block. Recommend line-honing the main bores, decking the block and surfacing the cylinder head. Converting the head bolts to studs and nuts would also be good insurance.

    Then, there's the ignition advance control. Flathead engines require a completely different curve than does the OHV. What might be instructive is to overlay the turbo ignition curve and the flathead and decide how to limit the advance to that the flathead will tolerate.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

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    • #17
      We ran a turbocharged Champion 6 at Bonneville from 2004 to 2006. It currently sits in Greg Meyers roadster which he had at the most recent International. Here's a shot of it in the race car. You could also contact Digger Dave Molnar with questions. He runs a Mercedes supercharger on the Champion 6 in his M5. I'm sure that was in South Bend this year as well.



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      • Ron Dame
        Ron Dame commented
        Editing a comment
        The head on that is something else. I only got a partial answer before he was interrupted by another question, but something about using motorcycle heads?

    • #18
      There was a fellow at the International meet in Red Wing, Minnesota some 20 years back or so. He was supercharging a 1950 Champion and was using sink drain plumbing for the air plenums.

      He was claiming 400 HP, but that seemed unrealistic to me.

      Anyone know what his results were?
      RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.


      10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
      4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
      5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon

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      • #19
        Originally posted by RadioRoy View Post
        There was a fellow at the International meet in Red Wing, Minnesota some 20 years back or so. He was supercharging a 1950 Champion and was using sink drain plumbing for the air plenums.

        He was claiming 400 HP, but that seemed unrealistic to me.

        Anyone know what his results were?
        No idea what his actual results were but no computer dyno program can be hacked to make a turbocharged Champion show 400 horsepower. Even if one were to feed it nitromethane, there's just not enough airflow through three tiny intake ports into six tiny transfer areas into 170".

        The Salt2Salt guys have real world turbo horsepower data, albiet on gas; a nitro Champion, someone should do it just because.

        jack vines
        PackardV8

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        • #20
          Some years ago, I ran the Dyno 2000 program to model a 245 cu in Commander 6 with a Paxton supercharger and 8:1 head. It showed a possible 160 hp with 250-300 lb-ft or torque with 5 psi boost. Here is the comparison of a stock 245 engine to one with 5 psi boost. The biggest problem is that flatheads don't breathe well and compression ratios grater than 8:1 and high lift cams don't really help. Still, there is lots of torque available at lower rpm, just don't count on winding it much above 4000 rpm.

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          Gary Ash
          Dartmouth, Mass.

          '32 Indy car replica (in progress)
          ’41 Commander Land Cruiser
          '48 M5
          '65 Wagonaire Commander
          '63 Wagonaire Standard
          web site at http://www.studegarage.com

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          • #21
            Was that ever considered for your Indy car, or just for fun?

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            • #22
              Originally posted by RadioRoy View Post
              There was a fellow at the International meet in Red Wing, Minnesota some 20 years back or so. He was supercharging a 1950 Champion and was using sink drain plumbing for the air plenums.

              He was claiming 400 HP, but that seemed unrealistic to me.

              Anyone know what his results were?
              That would be Greg Meyers -- my partner in Salt-2-Salt. This was his first attempt at turbocharging a flathead using info from Dick Datson's newsletters. That engine never ran on the dyno. The race engine was dyno-ed at 233.4 HP and 288 ft-lbs of torque. I believe we achieved a bit more than that later because there were carb problems at the dyno session. It certainly never made 400 or even 300 HP. I'd say 250 would be a worthy goal.

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              • #23
                Originally posted by BobWaitz View Post
                That would be Greg Meyers -- my partner in Salt-2-Salt. This was his first attempt at turbocharging a flathead using info from Dick Datson's newsletters. That engine never ran on the dyno. The race engine was dyno-ed at 233.4 HP and 288 ft-lbs of torque. I believe we achieved a bit more than that later because there were carb problems at the dyno session. It certainly never made 400 or even 300 HP. I'd say 250 would be a worthy goal.
                Even if it only made 250 horsepower, it's the most powerful Champion engine ever; a worthy goal indeed and congrats.

                BTW, at what RPM was peak horsepower developed?

                jack vines

                PackardV8

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                • #24
                  Bill Cathcart had a Lark 6 that he kept working on for years. As I recall, he added a turbo, got it up to 160 hp before it finally blew up. But it sure sounded good before that!
                  Gary Ash
                  Dartmouth, Mass.

                  '32 Indy car replica (in progress)
                  ’41 Commander Land Cruiser
                  '48 M5
                  '65 Wagonaire Commander
                  '63 Wagonaire Standard
                  web site at http://www.studegarage.com

                  Comment


                  • #25
                    The final iteration of our Champion contains a Cathcart stroker crank. Here's a link to the dyno numbers:

                    http://salt2salt.com/Dyno_05_06/Dyno_05_06.html

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                    • #26
                      Thanks for sharing that chart. Interesting that the turbocharger and all the rest of your work pushed the torque peak up from 1800 to 4100, but the horsepower peak only went from 4000 to 4500. No matter how much boost, the flathead can only flow so much air.

                      Do you recall the static compresson ratio?

                      jack vines
                      PackardV8

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                      • #27
                        Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
                        Do you recall the static compression ratio?
                        jack vines
                        Just checked with Greg: 8.5-1

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