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  • Engine: Studebaker cam

    I understand that there are not many options for performance or “aftermarket” cam grinds. I wonder has anyone experimented with a 4-7 cylinder swap studebaker cam? Is there such a thing? I hear good things about this firing order swap in a “traditional” v8. I understand that Chevrolet ditched the standard firing order for this 4-7 swap on the LS.

    I keep going over cylinder layout and this firing order change and I can’t help but think it would help with scavenging. I understand the exhaust ports are junk. Especially for the inner cylinders sharing that center port. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks

  • #2
    On one hand yes, I have...sorta. I had a bunch of roller cams made up a few years ago for folks here and on other Stude boards.
    The cams that I had made for me and one other person, are the 4-7 swap cams.
    BUT, neither of us has our engines done yet. We are both working on multiple cars, plus life getting in the way. The engine that my cam (have two cams) is going into, is short a few pieces still, but otherwise ready to go together. I just need to finish the full rebuild of another Stude wagon first.

    As for the 4-7 swap cams... As you may have read about, sometimes they work, sometimes there is no real difference. I can also say that all of the dyno reports that I've seen that are using dual plane intake manifolds, this cam combination doesn't do anything power wise. Since the swap alters the way the adjacent cylinders fire, the dual plane intake manifold does the same basic thing. The good thing...I've seen no "loss" in power when using the 4-7 cam, as long as the rest of the specs. are the same.
    I have three intake manifolds for my engine. A dual plane, a normal single plane, and a cross ram with two small four barrel carburetors OR a single four barrel carburetor. I'm fully aware that I may...only see an improvement when using either of my two single plane intakes.

    I've got a friend that drag races in the NHRA circuit in a Comp. Eliminator dragster with a small inch Dodge engine. He swears by the 4-7 cams additional power.

    Mike

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    • #3
      Delta will make any type of cam you want. They once made me the more aggressive version of the R3 cam and I liked it. Slightly cammy but quite drivable. Sister ports are suboptimal, but the only thing you can do is smooth everything up nice with a die grinder. Tedious but it is supposed to help flow. Since the firing order is 18436572, there are no 2 consecutive cylinders sharing the center sister ports.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Jeffry Cassel View Post
        Delta will make any type of cam you want.
        Yes, No, Maybe. Most older cam profiles will fit, but many newer ones won't. The Studebaker cam lobes are quite small and the cam grinder can't grind air. Many of the 21st century "Extreme Energy" lobe profiles, for example, won't fit on the Studebaker cam core. Many of the higher lift profiles can't be ground onto the Studebaker V8 cam core. Just not enough iron there.

        Originally posted by Jeffry Cassel View Post
        Sister ports are suboptimal, but the only thing you can do is smooth everything up nice with a die grinder. Tedious but it is supposed to help flow. Since the firing order is 18436572, there are no 2 consecutive cylinders sharing the center sister ports.
        FWIW, I've built a couple of sets of headers with a built-in divider which separated the two center ports into a four-tube header. It really changes the sound of the exhaust, but I didn't find a lot of power there. It requires a matched combination of intake, cam and header to get the maximum benefit. The Stude engine is so wide, there's not a lot of room for efficient headers in the existing space. To really use four-tube headers to maximum benefit, they'd need to be a full-race fenderwell exit and I didn't want to cut up the car.

        jack vines

        PackardV8

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        • #5
          I'm interested in this topic. My Daytona is a 259 4-bbl. 4-spd. I'm surprised at how quick it is, enough for my use, but I thought I'd like to have that race car overlap lope with a new Simmons exhaust with loud mufflers. Probably not practical without head work and so forth, correct?
          Proud NON-CASO

          I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

          If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth - let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

          GOD BLESS AMERICA

          Ephesians 6:10-17
          Romans 15:13
          Deuteronomy 31:6
          Proverbs 28:1

          Illegitimi non carborundum

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Bob Andrews View Post
            I'm interested in this topic. My Daytona is a 259 4-bbl. 4-spd. I'm surprised at how quick it is, enough for my use, but I thought I'd like to have that race car overlap lope with a new Simmons exhaust with loud mufflers. Probably not practical without head work and so forth, correct?
            No worries, Bob. It's easy and inexpensive to give your engine the lope you think you want. A $125 reground cam to R3 or better specs will git 'er done.

            The tradeoff will be loss of fuel mileage, loss of low end torque and more gas smell in the exhaust.

            But yes, to make any more top end power from the cam swap, it requires increasing the compression ratio, R3 intake valves, at least bowl porting and stronger valve springs.

            jack vines
            PackardV8

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            • #7
              Thanks, Jack, that's something to think about. I want it for no more reason than the sound. It is surprisingly fast with the factory-ordered 3.73 gears. But it would be fun to be somewhere with this Howdy Doody-looking car and start it up with a big race car sound Right now it idles smooth and the dual exhaust is quiet, like one would expect from a car with such a profile.
              Proud NON-CASO

              I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

              If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth - let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

              GOD BLESS AMERICA

              Ephesians 6:10-17
              Romans 15:13
              Deuteronomy 31:6
              Proverbs 28:1

              Illegitimi non carborundum

              Comment


              • #8
                I never heard of a Studebaker Club before 1970, I bought an Isky Cam Kit (in 1969) from my local Auto Parts Store for my 62 Daytona, 289, 4-speed. I wanted the "full race" cam kit, but received the 3/4 Race kit. It added a nice rumble through my Walker Glasspacks. The dual valve springs allowed me to shift at 6500 rpm. My last night before being shipped off to Vietnam (1971) I ran the piss out of my car and blew out a soft plug. I had 3.31, TT, I buried the Speedometer past 120mph until it touched the metal peg at 0, too.
                Last edited by daytonadave; 08-06-2021, 09:52 AM.

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                • #9
                  Hah! That is some driving!

                  Glad you came back from Nam.
                  Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

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                  • #10
                    Here is an in car video of my car running the R2+ cam . seems really similar to that Isky cam shown above . (Click where it says 13.99 GVille copy)

                    13.99 GVille copy by Bill H, on Flickr
                    Bill H
                    Daytona Beach
                    SDC member since 1970
                    Owner of The Skeeter Hawk .

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                    • #11
                      Yes to both. The Iskenderian ST5 has been the go-to Studebaker V8 street grind for more than sixty years now. Ted Harbit/Phil Harris/Fairborn Studebaker have offered a very similar profile informally known as the R2+.

                      jack vines

                      PackardV8

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                      • #12
                        Isky or Precision Cams will grind you a ST 5 on your old core for about $100. But if you want to be a real CASO, just get a hand choke and when you want to have a loper, pull the choke out about half way. When you have run through the Drive in parking lot, just shove the choke back in and rap the throtle a few times to clean it out.

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                        • #13
                          Alan, you just described hundreds of "wanna-be", cam-lusting, try-anything, teen-age'rs from the 60s.... me included, ha ha! Thanks for the hilarious memory kick !!!

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                          • #14
                            I wouldn't mind putting an R2± cam into my 259 clover leaf engine. Where can I find one?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by evilhawk View Post
                              I wouldn't mind putting an R2± cam into my 259 clover leaf engine. Where can I find one?
                              Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker
                              Iskenderian
                              We've got them.

                              You'll also need the matching valve springs.

                              jack vines
                              PackardV8

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