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  • Fuel System: 64 Daytona Fuel Pump

    Hey guys.
    I have a 64 Daytona which seems pretty bone stock but was upgraded to a 4bbll carb at some point in the last decade or two so im not sure if this pump is stock or not. its an old mechanical Carter fuel pump with a glass bowl.
    Anyways, its pissing out gas from the sides, do I rebuild or replace? Keep in mind im not a mechanic, just a kid learning as I go. Wiring an electric one seems like it'll create some headaches but I don't hear the best things with the mechanical ones - vapour lock etc... Trying to find the cheapest and most simple fix as possible.

    if you have links to kits to rebuild or new pumps you chose to use please link them as well.
    any advice helps, thanks for your time.

  • #2
    would a bead of gasoline safe silicon on the inside where the rubber meets metal work do you think? its tough to determine the exact spot of the leak since the fan blows the leaking fuel straight back on the block

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CanadianDaytona View Post
      Hey guys.
      I have a 64 Daytona which seems pretty bone stock but was upgraded to a 4bbll carb at some point in the last decade or two so im not sure if this pump is stock or not. its an old mechanical Carter fuel pump with a glass bowl.
      Anyways, its pissing out gas from the sides, do I rebuild or replace? Keep in mind im not a mechanic, just a kid learning as I go. Wiring an electric one seems like it'll create some headaches but I don't hear the best things with the mechanical ones - vapour lock etc... Trying to find the cheapest and most simple fix as possible.

      if you have links to kits to rebuild or new pumps you chose to use please link them as well.
      any advice helps, thanks for your time.
      Sounds like an original Studebaker fuel pump. Was thinking that the '64s had a metal filter bowl, but to me the glass bowl pumps are just as good. You would be way ahead to just rebuild the Carter pump. I get all my kits from Then & Now Automotive, never had a problem with them: https://www.then-now-auto.com/produc...uel-pump-kits/
      Paul
      Winston-Salem, NC
      Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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      • #4
        Here's the cheapest and best way to do it.

        Buy a new alcohol resistant rebuild kit.

        Mark the two halves so you clock it correctly when reassembling.

        When you take the pump apart, sand the mating edges flat on a sheet of glass. Put "wet or dry" sandpaper on the glass and sand the pump halves in a figure 8 pattern to make sure the mating surfaces are flat. After a couple of minutes, you should see if the parts are warped, by observing the sanding pattern on the mating surfaces. You can wet the sand paper with ordinary rubbing alcohol.

        The cheapest way to do it is the way that will make it last the longest, regardless of original price.
        Last edited by RadioRoy; 07-22-2021, 03:40 PM.
        RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

        17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
        10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
        10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
        4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
        5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
        56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
        60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CanadianDaytona View Post
          would a bead of gasoline safe silicon on the inside where the rubber meets metal work do you think?
          Nope.

          Those kind of "jury rig" repairs never last and are not worth the effort required. The diaphragm is probably brittle and just taking the pump apart will stress it beyond its power to forgive. It's also probably not alcohol resistant.

          At least two things could happen:
          -The silicone bits will get into the carburetor and raise hell with the tiny passages.
          -The old diaphragm will eventually crack and leak fuel into the crankcase and wreck the engine.

          You might as well learn to do it right from the beginning. If you teach yourself to do things in a slip shod manner, it will only bring you sorrow and more expense in the long run.
          Last edited by RadioRoy; 07-22-2021, 03:36 PM.
          RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

          17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
          10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
          10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
          4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
          5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
          56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
          60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

          Comment


          • #6
            At the very least, pass the Carter you now have to one of the Stude' parts businesses that rebuild that pump (like Studebaker West or Dave Thibeault) that advertise in T.W. so they can have a new life - They are getting hard to find (original Carter fuel pump, not new lives).
            paulk

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            • #7
              This has been covered a thousand times on this forum.

              Bottom line- there is no mechanical pump for a Stude that is as good as a rebuilt OEM pump.

              Comment


              • #8
                There are at least three makes of pumps that will fit that engine and many of those pumps can be reconfigured. Some have a very shallow base mainly to clear the steering arm, some have a somewhat deeper base, some have a spacer with two holes in it to hold a bail ie glass filter. Some pumps are made in Canada and some made in USA. Some pumps have a second set on holes so that the base can be reconfigured to face a different direction to match the fuel line in-out connections. On some pumps the second set of holes are pre threaded and some are not. Some pumps have the brand name stamped on them and some don't some have the number 4227 stamped on the housing and some don't. I have a dozen of these pumps in a box and they were all given to me because the diaphragms were all cracked, I ordered a dozen kits and rebuilt all of them. The kits for the 4227 pumps fit all of them. None of these pumps have a brand name on them they are just mystery pumps however they all pump fuel very good. Some have patent pending stamped on them. They all fit the 259 engines and I assume the 289 as well. The extended bail assembly may not clear the steering arm when turning to the right as the arm moves forward under the pump.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by altair View Post
                  There are at least three makes of pumps that will fit that engine and many of those pumps can be reconfigured. Some have a very shallow base mainly to clear the steering arm, some have a somewhat deeper base, some have a spacer with two holes in it to hold a bail ie glass filter. Some pumps are made in Canada and some made in USA. Some pumps have a second set on holes so that the base can be reconfigured to face a different direction to match the fuel line in-out connections. On some pumps the second set of holes are pre-threaded and some are not. Some pumps have the brand name stamped on them and some don't some have the number 4227 stamped on the housing and some don't. I have a dozen of these pumps in a box and they were all given to me because the diaphragms were all cracked, I ordered a dozen kits and rebuilt all of them. The kits for the 4227 pumps fit all of them. None of these pumps have a brand name on them they are just mystery pumps however they all pump fuel very good. Some have patent pending stamped on them. They all fit the 259 engines and I assume the 289 as well. The extended bail assembly may not clear the steering arm when turning to the right as the arm moves forward under the pump.


                  No Mystery there.
                  If they all have the Laminated Plate Riveted Actuator Lever and the Long Studebaker shape, they may work, BUT every one sounds like they are Airtex AC copies and if you look closely on the Top of the Air Dome some may say "AC".
                  NONE are probably Real Carter and although they will "Work" none are as high Quality and dependable as a Carter.

                  "In the "Day", we had two choices for V8 Fuel Pumps the OEM Original Carter and the AC aftermarket replacement which was later coped by Airtex (probably with permission) when GM dumped Studebaker Parts.
                  The quality went downhill from there, even having Chinese Airtex's being sold as "Carters".

                  The Steering clearance problem is only close on Sedans, Larks and Lark Types, not C & K Models

                  This info has all been made clear on these SDC Forums Dozens of times and in Turning Wheels.
                  StudeRich
                  Second Generation Stude Driver,
                  Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Everything you say Rich is correct these are not the robust Carters but they will pump fuel. That is the reason I got them in a box for free. Are you going to hold off for years to find a Carter or are you going to put in a clone and get it running?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      None of this alters the fact that the quality of the fuel itself has changed for the worse, and it is now more prone to vapor lock. A properly-installed electric pump at the rear, near the tank, is the way to go, now.
                      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                      • #12
                        I don't understand the concept of a vapor lock at the fuel pump when the fuel pump has a supply of liquid fuel at the inlet and every time the arm is actuated there is liquid fuel delivered to the carburetor. If the fuel in the carburetor has boiled over it will kill the engine, however the fuel pump will still continue to deliver fuel to an already flooded engine. When everything cools down all is well again. If the fuel in the carburetor didn't boil in the first place there would be no issue and no "vapor lock".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          True vapor lock happens when the fuel in the line from the tank to the pump becomes heated. Hot day, heat thrown off by the exhaust system, and hot air from the rad, all contribute. The the pump diaphragm pulls some suction, and suddenly the pressure on the suction side of the pump becomes less than the vapor pressure of the heated fuel. Boiling occurs, and the fuel pump sucks wind.
                          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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