Engine: Commander Engine - Truck version question

[Al Kurz]

I am looking at a Commander engine that was pulled from a large Stude truck. The block stamping is 6R - 2284I (that's aye, not a one) and casting number 523140-6. From what I can tell, this is a standard 245 ci block. Head # 526990 gives the engine a 7:1 compression ratio.

Is this Commander engine the same as all commander engines of it's vintage or was there anything special done to the engine to make it suitable for a heavy multi ton truck? I am thinking of using it in a car that needs its Commander 225 rebuilt.

Any pointers and tips much appreciated. Al K

[gordr]

As far as I know, they are the same. The truck engine may have some heavy-duty internal parts, and may have a governor on it. Neither should preclude its use to replace a 245 in a car. Things to look out for: motor mount brackets, and rear engine plate. You might have to use the rear engine plate off the engine being replaced, and the dial-indicate the bell housing.

And Studebaker routinely used an upper-case "I" for the figure "1".

[Skip Lackie]

As usual, Gord hits the nail on the head. It should fit fine, though you may have to use some of the external accessories from your current engine.

With a 6R engine number, it should've come from a 3/4 or 1-ton truck, which makes it somewhat less likely that it came with the valve roto-caps and the other HD components listed in the parts book. If originally so equipped, there should be a cloverleaf symbol on the engine serial pad. Nevertheless, if you ever need to tear it apart, don't be surprised if you find these items. In case you don't already know: if you have a truck parts book, you can usually ID items that are different in trucks by part numbers that begin with a 6 or 16. Part numbers that begin with a 5 or 15 are the same on both cars and trucks.

[Al Kurz]

Great advice and very helpful with these somewhat arcane questions. Many thanks.

[jackb]

are the Commander 6 carbs the same for 1/2 tons on up to 2 ton trucks .....differences ?

[Al Kurz]

Thanks Again. I got the engine yesterday and moved it to my shop. Thanks Gord on the tip regarding the engine backing plate. I may try to marry the 245 parts into my original block 226. I have done some research from TW and this forum but I am not complete. If I can't find an existing detail thread on conversion, I will start one. However, I won't be able to engage with focus until Sept or so.

These things sure are heavy. Does anyone know the weights of this engine? if not, I may make the effort to weigh it as a short block and post it.

Anyway. No cloverleaf on anything external. Bad news is engine is stuck. But I knew that. Good news is that it still is at original bore of 3.3125". I'll need to make more accurate measurements later with a taper gauge. The story is that this was an old grain truck with split rear end, single axle, duals. I'll attach the one useful photo I have of it before engine removal.

Looks like the bell housing is different dimensions than my coupe express. Unfortunately there is so so so much grease and dirt caked on that I have not found the part number yet.

Can anyone tell me what type of truck this is so I know for future reference?

I'll tear the engine down later this year when I have free time to find out what the inside looks like and as noted above, post my questions. Many thanks and all ideas and tips are appreciated.

Al K

[skyway]

“I may try to marry the 245 parts INTO (Emphasis MINE) my original block 226.”
Don’t think that will work as I’m pretty sure they enlarged the mains on the 245 crankshaft. Perhaps better to reuse your 226 external parts to camouflage the newer 245 block.
Also, if the 245 still has its later, removable, oil baffles pinched inside the valve covers, be sure to reuse them.
After I rebuilt my 1941 226, it was using a bit of oil, and installing those later baffles solved the problem.

[gordr]

Looks like an M16, or possibly a 2R16. If it was an M-series truck, it might be a 226 engine.

[Skip Lackie]

Not a big issue, but the 245 appears to still have the mounting bracket for a Delco generator. The 226 used Auto-Lite and employed an ear on the front cover to hold the front of the generator. The factory cut that ear off on trucks equipped with Delco electrics. Choose one or the other and then use the correct mounting bracket.

[1939 Coupe Express]

Good information. I am doing the same thing with my CE. Picked up a running 245 motor and a T86 to use in mine.
Looks like our trucks are the same color Delphinium Blue.

[Al Kurz]

Lots of great advice and thanks. Some quick questions since I have the guru's on the thread here.

As for engine type, I am pretty sure its a 245. At least the head # indicated that it was the longer stroke crank. Once I get the engine unstuck, I can make some more measurements.

Idle curiosity: If you notice from the photo, the engine has a clutch device on the crank. I can't imagine this was for hand starting. Was this a PTO clutch or something?

Crankshaft. If I was to line bore the 226 crank galley to proper specs, I could then use the 245 crank, correct? (Allowing for bearing insert spacing. using the 245 oil pan, etc. And from Ingar Vic's comments from way back, I may have to raise front of engine 1/4")

Are the pistons the same for both engine? ie, the wrist pin to top of deck? I noticed on the 245 that the pistons are almost flush with the deck, but on my 226, a few are sitting roughly further down the bore but not at deck flush height. But... my 226 is also stuck so can't verify TDC for sure.

Love the Delphinium Blue. Sounds like "Real Corinthian Leather". One must be a child of the 80's to appreciate this infamous Chrysler/Ricardo Montablan advertisement.

My intent will be to get the 245 un stuck and if not too much damage, hand lap the valves and mount it on some wood framing and test run it. I may end up using it "as is" if it runs okay and save the engine rebuilding for the fall.

A better test stand would be the front of the truck frame that this came out of. The guy I bought the engine from will eventually torch it to pieces. But I have no room for a metal engine frame. FYI, with the transmission and shaft mounted parking brake, it would make a nice semi load test saddle for those 6 cyl gear heads.

Thanks again. Al K

[Al Kurz]

I forgot to add. Is there a set of rebuild specs for these engines? Ie clearances and torque? From the manuals, there is little info to be found. At least I think that is the case. Thanks. Al K

[Skip Lackie]

are the Commander 6 carbs the same for 1/2 tons on up to 2 ton trucks .....differences ?

No, but they're all Carter BBR-1 types.

[Skip Lackie]

Lots of great advice and thanks. Some quick questions since I have the guru's on the thread here.

As for engine type, I am pretty sure its a 245. At least the head # indicated that it was the longer stroke crank. Once I get the engine unstuck, I can make some more measurements.

Idle curiosity: If you notice from the photo, the engine has a clutch device on the crank. I can't imagine this was for hand starting. Was this a PTO clutch or something?

Crankshaft. If I was to line bore the 226 crank galley to proper specs, I could then use the 245 crank, correct? (Allowing for bearing insert spacing. using the 245 oil pan, etc. And from Ingar Vic's comments from way back, I may have to raise front of engine 1/4")

Are the pistons the same for both engine? ie, the wrist pin to top of deck? I noticed on the 245 that the pistons are almost flush with the deck, but on my 226, a few are sitting roughly further down the bore but not at deck flush height. But... my 226 is also stuck so can't verify TDC for sure.

Love the Delphinium Blue. Sounds like "Real Corinthian Leather". One must be a child of the 80's to appreciate this infamous Chrysler/Ricardo Montablan advertisement.

My intent will be to get the 245 un stuck and if not too much damage, hand lap the valves and mount it on some wood framing and test run it. I may end up using it "as is" if it runs okay and save the engine rebuilding for the fall.

A better test stand would be the front of the truck frame that this came out of. The guy I bought the engine from will eventually torch it to pieces. But I have no room for a metal engine frame. FYI, with the transmission and shaft mounted parking brake, it would make a nice semi load test saddle for those 6 cyl gear heads.

Thanks again. Al K

The engine number you already posted confirms it's a 245. i believe all Commander 6 engines installed in trucks came with the crank starting jaw. Export trucks came with the crank as standard equipment. 226 and 245 pistons are the same.