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intermediate answer from MasterCool on "can't stop the weep!" on my Hawk brake lines

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  • bezhawk
    replied
    Midland Metal Mfg. 10084 3/16 Flare Gasket, Brass Fittings, Sae 45 Deg Flare, Copper Gasket | Blackhawk Supply. I just did a quick Google search for 3/16" flare seat gaskets

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  • studefan
    replied
    Bezhawk et al,

    I bought the reproduction brake line kit for my 63 Lark and I'm about ready to hook up all the tubes. If you recommend I use them, can you guys direct me to the exact little seals/seat gaskets I should purchase? I'm using silicon fluid if that makes any difference. Thank you
    Last edited by studefan; 05-18-2021, 02:40 PM.

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  • bezhawk
    replied
    The seats on cylinders are usually a brass insert. Once a harder steel brake line is installed, the seal is deformed and grooved. Then when you install a different line, it no longer can seat, as the seat is no longer smooth. If you take a magnifier and look at used things like the cylinders or the junction blocks, you will see it clearly. The seat gaskets are a time saver in trying to track down leaks.

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  • lark55
    replied
    Originally posted by garyash View Post
    I ordered about 20 of the Parker copper cone-shaped gaskets for the 3/16” lines and put them in the fittings. I carefully checked that the gaskets were seated on fittings before installing the tubes and nuts, but did use the tube ends to push the gaskets into the fittings before threading the nuts in, checked with a small mirror that they were seated correctly. That seems to have fixed the leak problems, as I now have the rear brake lines apparently tight - no leaks visible. I was able to bleed the rear brake cylinders and get no more bubbles. The pedal is now starting to be firm, but I need to fill and bleed the front loop. At least I am now having some firm pedal pressure and no liquid squirting out. These gaskets are tiny and thin, but seem to work. I’m not sure why they are needed.
    We commonly called those seals "nose seals". Our systems were typically 37 degree fittings. I didn't know they were made in a 45 degree configuration if that is what yours are. They were also offered in stainless steel, nickel, and teflon coated stainless steel.

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  • garyash
    replied
    I ordered about 20 of the Parker copper cone-shaped gaskets for the 3/16” lines and put them in the fittings. I carefully checked that the gaskets were seated on fittings before installing the tubes and nuts, but did use the tube ends to push the gaskets into the fittings before threading the nuts in, checked with a small mirror that they were seated correctly. That seems to have fixed the leak problems, as I now have the rear brake lines apparently tight - no leaks visible. I was able to bleed the rear brake cylinders and get no more bubbles. The pedal is now starting to be firm, but I need to fill and bleed the front loop. At least I am now having some firm pedal pressure and no liquid squirting out. These gaskets are tiny and thin, but seem to work. I’m not sure why they are needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • bsrosell
    replied
    Dwain, me too (thought Cunifer was just a bit bigger because copper, for strength to match steel). Did I MEASURE IT back then? No ;-( I checked it last week and is EXACTLY 3/16" (0.188"). Die size? Well, new one will be here Monday. honestly, it could well be that as I was learning to use it for the first time (first flares of ANY type ever), I was cranking down to hard thinking that die should be completely closed or as much as possible. So maybe ruined it right away... But my fuel-lines had no problems at all and don't recall the deep thread-grooves either. Dunno. Will post results of new die when I get it.

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  • Dwain G.
    replied
    My first thought when I saw the pic of the tubing with those deep bite marks was that either the tubing is oversize or the clamp is udersize.

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  • bsrosell
    replied
    Originally posted by Corbinstein0 View Post
    so, did they pony up with another die?
    Oh no! 90-day warranty. No exceptions. And still assured me that I must have damaged it with putting 'something too hard in it". (WAS a really nice guy though; actually knew what a Golden Hawk is and that it was supercharged)

    What IS possible is I was cranking the die too tight originally, noticing that gap between the two die halves, and thinking "that can't be right, should be completely closed!". Regardless, only $18 on Amazon, have one on the way. Try that and see IF that is the problem, and I'm making perfect flares, before ordering another $100 bag of 3/16' FedHill tubing :-( (and re-doing my whole brake system again).

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  • Corbinstein0
    replied
    so, did they pony up with another die?

    Leave a comment:


  • intermediate answer from MasterCool on "can't stop the weep!" on my Hawk brake lines

    Hi guys,
    if any of you read my "Can't stop the weep!" post last week (continued weeping of 3/16" Cunifer brake flares at my master cylinder, etc.), Here is (apparently?) at least ONE of my problems.

    After getting a new tubing cutter, experimenting on fresh tubing, different depths, etc..., I finally did what I should have two years ago, called MasterCool about their hydraulic flaring tool, vs my problems.

    I sent them photos of the whole process (to prove I was doing it right), and of the die set and the resulting EVERY TIME extra material under the flares.
    Their answer: die is faulty, and pointed out the threads at the top are not 'sharp' like the rest of them.
    Click image for larger version

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    Click image for larger version  Name:	flare example for MasterCool.jpg Views:	0 Size:	72.9 KB ID:	1893114
    Said "someone must have used too hard a material or too thick wall-thickness'.... I got it new, only used it with Cunifer lines for this Hawk, and ALWAYS had this problem since day one. Regardless, is what it is.
    SO, need to buy a new 3/16" die. And new FedHill Cunifer, I'm ALL out now (he strongly warned me away from NAPA, etc..., "cheap imported materials"..... )

    QUESTION: anyone had 'weeping' lines during actual use, after they were sealed initially? Ie: any reason to consider re-doing my whole brake system, again, while I'm at it? (Body is still off, will never be more accessible.). None of the rest of the fittings are leaking (any more; really had to crank down on most of those nuts to stop the weeping with DOT5 back in 2019). But considering I've had this die problem when I originally did the whole system 2 years ago (I simply carefully filed off that little ridge until flare nut spun free and looked good), now I wonder.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	MC.jpg Views:	0 Size:	89.6 KB ID:	1893115
    The three weeps I'm fighting now, after having it ALL leak-free for two years, are the two MC connections, and one of the corresponding pressure valves (Jim Turner dual-MC kit).
    So, they are always under some pressure, and "next day" I'll go out and get that little wet spot on a paper towel.
    The REST of the system, no leaks now, only sees pressure when the pedal is compressed.
    So I wonder; just because they are not weeping now, might they when I really stand on the pedal with real braking someday (vs hand-pumping to bleed and check for leaks?)

    Sorry this doesn't answer any of YOUR weeping issues brought up in previous post, though all of your input was good advice for me (first car I've ever made brakes for; possibly the last :-)
    Barry
    Attached Files
    Last edited by bsrosell; 05-04-2021, 04:22 PM.
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