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OHV main bearing woes

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  • Ron Dame
    replied
    Well as usual my parts books, the parts, and the computer are all distant from one another, BUT! I did stand the 185 crank, the partial flow OHV crank and the full flow OHV crank side by side, and to me it looks like the oil holes are all in the same place. The rods are all at the outermost point of the throw, and it seems like the hole in the crank is in the same place on each. There could be a few degrees difference, but I'm not sure.

    Besides, if the groove in the main bearing shell ensures that oil does all the around the bearing, does the exact location of the oil hole itself make any difference? Rods are all the same from at least early 1950's flatties through the end, so the oil squirter holes should be located the same.

    Maybe DD was having one of his moments when he wrote that bit about oiling. He sure seems to have been accused of odd ideas for years!

    Dwain G. suggests that the full flow oil hole location may have saved a step in machining, and I can see how, but I just don't see how that could change the ability to oil the mains, the rods, or the cylinders.

    Maybe I am just a real revolutionary in building the very first full flow 185 OHV champion engine! (Put THAT in your Funk and Wagnalls)




    quote:Originally posted by Tom B

    Thinking about where the hole in the main is, when the rod, and its hole wipe past the hole in the crank journal, the stream of oil is a little more open and a little more oil goes into the rod. Is there some place where oil is supposed to squirt from the other end of the rod? Like on the outboard cylinder wall to give it a bit more oil on the power stroke? Perhaps there was a reason for changing the oil hole, or perhaps they changed it because this way they could drill it in one operation, as opposed to two operations. I'm not familiar with the oil passages in either block.

    [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
    Tom Bredehoft
    '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
    '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
    (Under Construction 571 hrs.)
    '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
    All Indiana built cars
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

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  • Tom Bredehoft
    replied
    Thinking about where the hole in the main is, when the rod, and its hole wipe past the hole in the crank journal, the stream of oil is a little more open and a little more oil goes into the rod. Is there some place where oil is supposed to squirt from the other end of the rod? Like on the outboard cylinder wall to give it a bit more oil on the power stroke? Perhaps there was a reason for changing the oil hole, or perhaps they changed it because this way they could drill it in one operation, as opposed to two operations. I'm not familiar with the oil passages in either block.

    [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
    Tom Bredehoft
    '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
    '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
    (Under Construction 571 hrs.)
    '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
    All Indiana built cars

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  • r1lark
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by bams50

    I was always taught that bearings should never be touched by fingers, as the acid in your fingers can damage the surface and lead to premature failure; so it follows that there is NO way I'd be comfortable drilling any[:0]
    Bob,

    This is what they make those un-powdered thin latex gloves for.......

    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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  • Ron Dame
    replied
    I wonder what problems the factory was having? And yet he says it's possible with late main bearings (a must anyway)and will oil 'differently'...I wonder how it's different? And just different, or worse? The oil holes in the block are clocked about 20-30 degrees is all I see, other than that, I don't see a difference. I'm not clear what different oil hole locations in the block or crank would make, as long as the main gets oil and feeds it through the crank to the rods.

    But again, I am far from an expert in such matters.



    quote:Originally posted by 54-61-62

    This is a quote from Dick Daton's Stude 'high performace book':

    " It is easy to put togther a Stude six from misc. parts as there is a great deal of interchangability. There is however, a little bit of risk here which we have tried to point out ----

    I have checked a 185 crank against a 1964 180 crank and found the oil holes to the rods are drilled at different locations on the two center main bearing journals....What does this mean? If you plan to build a 185 OHV or put a 61-63 crank in a 63-64 full flow OHV sic blocl, you may encounter the same problem the factory had with using full-flow blocks and non-full flow cranks. IF you use a non-full-flow block ('61-62) you should be safe. A 185 crank in a late full-flow OHV block should be possible (using late main bearing sets) even though it will oil differently since the bearings are grooved and the early crank cross-drilled. "
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

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  • 54-61-62
    replied
    This is a quote from Dick Daton's Stude 'high performace book':

    " It is easy to put togther a Stude six from misc. parts as there is a great deal of interchangability. There is however, a little bit of risk here which we have tried to point out ----

    I have checked a 185 crank against a 1964 180 crank and found the oil holes to the rods are drilled at different locations on the two center main bearing journals....What does this mean? If you plan to build a 185 OHV or put a 61-63 crank in a 63-64 full flow OHV sic blocl, you may encounter the same problem the factory had with using full-flow blocks and non-full flow cranks. IF you use a non-full-flow block ('61-62) you should be safe. A 185 crank in a late full-flow OHV block should be possible (using late main bearing sets) even though it will oil differently since the bearings are grooved and the early crank cross-drilled. "

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  • bams50
    replied
    I was always taught that bearings should never be touched by fingers, as the acid in your fingers can damage the surface and lead to premature failure; so it follows that there is NO way I'd be comfortable drilling any[:0]

    Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
    Parish, central NY 13131

    "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

    "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"



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  • r1lark
    replied
    Well, I'm hosed!

    I had purchased three sets of Clevite aftermarket main bearings of various undersizes from a guy in Texas (Houston?) that (I thought) were advertised as fitting all '55 thru '64 Champion-style six cylinders. They were going to be used on my two 185 OHV (full flow) engine conversions.

    After seeing these posts, I decided I better check them since I didn't remember them having two oil holes. Shoot....they only have one oil feed hole - and it lines up with the oil holes in the partial flow blocks.

    Live and learn I guess.......

    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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  • cstude1
    replied
    I have checked factory NOS main bearings, 1556300 and they only have one oil hole in them. The current replacement Clevite bearings have two holes in them to be used in either motor.
    I hope this helps,
    Chuck Collins

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  • gordr
    replied
    So, if the service main bearings are double-drilled, it makes sense that one could re-drill the the single-drilled bearings, if they were otherwise right.

    I'd do it in the drill press, starting with a bit small enough to turn in the oil groove without snagging the sides, and then gradually work up to the finished hole size. Then finish with a countersink. Should be minimal chance that way of damaging the bond between the bearing and the shell.

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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  • Dwain G.
    replied
    The new number can replace the old one simply because it has TWO oil holes so it will fit either engine.

    [img][/img]

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    [img][img]
    Dwain G.

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  • Dan Timberlake
    replied
    We used to use a milling machine to create dowel holes in steel backed rod bearings successfully, before the bearing companies started making 'racing" bearings. Today I'd clamp the bearing against a wood 2X4 (or better yet, hardwood) with a contoured edge so the drill would not tear things up too badly when breaking thru. I'd test on an old bearing first to get the feel for it. When done I'd use a cutting burr, not a stone in a hand grinder or Dremel to chamfer the babbit side and deburr the steel back.

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  • Ron Dame
    replied
    Yep, Dwain forwared me the service bulletin. The numbers in my parts book are correct, but I went to the garage to look at the bearing box again: The box has the correct part number pencilled in on it, but under the masking tape that closed the box is the Studebaker label, torn faded, etc. It has a different part number on it. I suspect whoever I bought these from several years ago when I started the project (I no longer remember who) substituted older partial flow bearings without realizing the difference.

    My machine shop is concernd about drilling new holes in the shells, for fear of tearing the bearing material from the shell. An I know I'd really doink them uf if I tried. So I'm starting to look for some. If anyone has any P/N 1556298 0.010 undesized mains on the shelf they don't want, please let me know! (SASCO, Chuck Collins, and Studebaker International show no-stock, but I'm still looking.)

    Ron

    quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

    With credit to Dwain Grindinger, here is the appropriate information from Studebaker Service Bulletin #S-1048:

    MAIN BEARINGS - 1962 MODEL 6-CYLINDER PASSENGER CARS WITH FULL-FLOW OIL FILTER SYSTEM

    1962 model 6-cylinder passenger car engines equipped with a full-flow oil filter system require main bearings that are different from the main bearings used on models without the full-flow oil filter system because of the location of the main bearing oil lubrication holes.

    Service main bearings, either individually or in sets, used in 6-cylinder engines without the full-flow oil filter system must not be used in engines equipped with the full-flow oil filter system, with the exception of the rear main bearing. This bearing is common to both engines.

    However, service main bearings released for the 6-cylinder engine with the full-flow oil filter system can be used in engines without the filter system.

    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

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  • BobPalma
    replied
    With credit to Dwain Grindinger, here is the appropriate information from Studebaker Service Bulletin #S-1048:

    MAIN BEARINGS - 1962 MODEL 6-CYLINDER PASSENGER CARS WITH FULL-FLOW OIL FILTER SYSTEM

    1962 model 6-cylinder passenger car engines equipped with a full-flow oil filter system require main bearings that are different from the main bearings used on models without the full-flow oil filter system because of the location of the main bearing oil lubrication holes.

    Service main bearings, either individually or in sets, used in 6-cylinder engines without the full-flow oil filter system must not be used in engines equipped with the full-flow oil filter system, with the exception of the rear main bearing. This bearing is common to both engines.

    However, service main bearings released for the 6-cylinder engine with the full-flow oil filter system can be used in engines without the filter system.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Dame
    replied
    I don't understand how a 185 crank in a full flow block woud make any difference. What will get blocked? I'll have yet another look and see. This is getting real tiresome, one problem after another, but I'd like it to work right, of course. The crank should still get oil and feed it to the rods, the oil holes in all of the bearings, the block, and the rods are in the center of the bearings, so I'm not clear what would get blocked in this configuration.

    But please, if you know, please please tell me.

    Ron

    quote:Originally posted by 54-61-62

    Problem is you are using 'partial-flow' bearings in a 'full flow' block. You may have problems using the 185 crank in a full flow OHV block due to the oil passage pattern drilled in the crank. Not sure

    When I built my OHV 185, I used a 61 block that was partial flow to avoid such problems.
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

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  • Ron Dame
    replied
    I'll pass on the drilling. I don't see it as a problem for someone else to do, but me? That could be a big problem! I'm just thankful that when I put the bearings in I looked and saw that something wasn't right...I wouldn't have even broken in the cam before it blew up.


    quote:Originally posted by Tom B

    I'm going to stick my neck out and say that you can drill the bearings (very gently). The oil will pass through the bearing to the groove, where it will travel to the hole in the web then to the rod and thence to the rod bearing. I don't believe the position of the crank oil passage and the rod oil passage is critical.

    [Edit, added thought] I can't see that there would be one good place that the rod bearing needs more oil than any other.

    I'm willing to be corrected, but you gotta convince me.

    [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
    Tom Bredehoft
    '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
    '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
    (Under Construction 571 hrs.)
    '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
    All Indiana built cars
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

    Leave a comment:

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