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questions upon the lacquer enamel paints and how they were applied

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  • 70Avanti2
    replied
    Got to tell this story. Middle 70's I went to South Bend (IM maybe). Think I was outside the Avanti factory. Got into a conversation with a old studebaker employee. He stated he painted the first Studebakers with a paint brush.

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  • swvalcon
    replied
    I've been painting cars from 1972 and 71 years old today. Painted enough car if I lined them all up they would hit CA from Minnesota. Used about every kind of paint ever produced sometimes with a good mask sometimes not. Can remember when everyone sprayed acrylic Enamel with a catalyst and your eyes would be watering and nose running before you where done with nothing but a fan in the window. Still at it but I'm sure someday I'm going to die.

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  • studegary
    replied
    Originally posted by skyway View Post
    Old adage: “There are (used to be) good body men, and old body men, but there are (used to be) no good old body men.”
    How true. When this topic started I got to thinking about full time body men that I knew from the 1950s - 1960s. They all died by the time that they were 65. I am glad that I only worked at this on a part time basis and off and on at that.

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  • skyway
    replied
    Old adage: “There are (used to be) good body men, and old body men, but there are (used to be) no good old body men.”

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  • Hallabutt
    replied
    Originally posted by rbisacca View Post

    When acrylic enamel became available (mid 60's don't remember exactly) Studebaker and the other auto makers using enamel switched to acrylic. They gave it a name like "Super Fantastic" and claimed it never needed waxing.

    With all sprayed paint the painter should wear a respirator. The paints that use an isocyanide catalyst are especially toxic. Isocyanide reacts with moisture. Your lungs are moist!
    Just a comment-acrylic enamel can be used with a catalyst, or without. With catalization it can be color sanded and buffed, and if desired clear coated as well. Like any paint a precautionary seal coat should be applied before a color coat is applied. A seal coat also guards against any contamination that may be present as a result of previous prep work.

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  • Dwight FitzSimons
    replied
    The last time I talked to the guys at the local auto paint supply store they strongly recommended wearing an air supply system, as Chris Pile notes above. These pipe in clean, outside air to your face. Can the best masks filter out the isocynates? I, personally, cannot afford to lose any more brain cells; I have just barely enough to get by now.

    -Dwight

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  • Chris Pile
    replied
    I've sprayed much Imron and other polyurethanes wearing only a regular respirator. Probably not ideal but I still breathe OK.
    Sure you did.

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  • rbisacca
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Pile View Post

    The lacquer was NOT toxic - the lacquer thinner fumes were toxic .
    You want to talk toxic - let's talk Imron, one of the first 2 part epoxy finishes. It WILL kill you if you don't wear an air supply system.
    Since lacquer MUST be thinned to be sprayed that kinda makes it toxic doesn't it?

    Imron is NOT epoxy. It is a polyurethane. I've sprayed much Imron and other polyurethanes wearing only a regular respirator. Probably not ideal but I still breathe OK.

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  • Chris Pile
    replied
    FWIW, the old cellulose lacquer was very toxic.
    The lacquer was NOT toxic - the lacquer thinner fumes were toxic if safety rules were not followed. I've been shooting acrylic lacquer since the late 70's, and quickly learned to wear a mask with carbon filled cartridges or risk getting higher than a kite with a bad headache afterwards. It won't kill you, but it can cause extreme allergic reactions in people who don't wear the mask.

    You want to talk toxic - let's talk Imron, one of the first 2 part epoxy finishes. It WILL kill you if you don't wear an air supply system.

    Also, the term enamel has been misused so much by the general public it no longer means anything. And water based finishes can be toxic if used incorrectly. The trick is to be smart and use all the safety rules and gear recommended by the manufacturer - no matter what finish you are applying. You want safe, stick to water colors.

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  • Frank DuVal
    replied
    Most Auto Paint Stores over in this Country carry PPG, RM or Dupont Paints
    The name DuPont has been gone from auto paint for a while. Now it is Axalta.

    The PPG number you list is the color. If one wanted Lacquer, they ordered DAL50026. If they wanted enamel, they ordered DQE50026. That was Alkyd Enamel. PPG is no longer in the lacquer business. You can still get it online https://tcpglobal.com/pages/automotive-paint-home I also doubt they carry Alkyd enamel either anymore.

    Lacquer was used to spot paint over enamel, as it dried quick. Yes, it could raise issues by swelling the enamel.

    Are you doing spot repairs or looking to respray the 47?

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  • tsenecal
    replied
    Respirator cartridges need to be organic vapor cartridges.

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  • 47’ studebaker guy
    replied
    I appreciate all the help guys, you are all lifesavers!

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  • studegary
    replied
    Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
    IIRC, the enamel used was alkyd enamel - not acrylic. Avantis were sprayed with acrylic lacquer. FWIW, the old cellulose lacquer was very toxic.
    That makes me remember all of the car spray painting that I did with cellulose lacquer and without a booth or any personal protective equipment. We didn't know better then (late 1950s - early 1970s).

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  • rbisacca
    replied
    Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
    IIRC, the enamel used was alkyd enamel - not acrylic. Avantis were sprayed with acrylic lacquer. FWIW, the old cellulose lacquer was very toxic.
    When acrylic enamel became available (mid 60's don't remember exactly) Studebaker and the other auto makers using enamel switched to acrylic. They gave it a name like "Super Fantastic" and claimed it never needed waxing.

    With all sprayed paint the painter should wear a respirator. The paints that use an isocyanide catalyst are especially toxic. Isocyanide reacts with moisture. Your lungs are moist!
    Last edited by rbisacca; 04-18-2021, 05:16 PM.

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  • rbisacca
    replied
    Properly sprayed in a clean spray booth enamel (Acrylic, Urethane, Base Clear) is ready to go as soon as dry, although it may be buffed if desired or to cure a defect.
    Lacquer doesn't dry with a gloss and always requires buffing or wet sanding and buffing to bring out the gloss.

    Due to EPA regs I doubt lacquer is even manufactured anymore by the major auto paint manufacturers although it may be available from some specialty firms.

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