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questions upon the lacquer enamel paints and how they were applied

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  • Paint: questions upon the lacquer enamel paints and how they were applied

    Hello i have a 1947 Studebaker with the paint code of DQE-50026-DAL which comes out as lacquer and enamel , I was originally under the impression that you weren't able to paint with both. I was wondering if anyone could give me some insights upon this and maybe where to get some.

  • #2
    1947 & On Studebakers would have "Originally" had Baking Enamel, you are not supposed to put Lacquer over it, without a Seal Coat compatible with Both. Or stripping or Strip Sanding it bare, and Priming it.

    Most Auto Paint Stores over in this Country carry PPG, RM or Dupont Paints, they may be called something else there.

    Normally, you do not Spray anything except Lacquer without a Paint Booth, and never a Base and Clear Coat Finish System without Both a Booth and a Full Respirator System.

    You should know that Lacquer is THE least durable Paint ever made, but for a seldom driven, Garaged Car it will work Ok.
    Single Stage Acrylic Enamel and Base Clear Coat Systems are about all that is used anymore for several reasons.

    Not really too sure about ANY of this in Canada, just basing it on here.
    The Old Formulas for that Dupont Color Code have to be converted to Modern Chemicals, or matched to a good area of the Car like inside of the Gas Door.

    To answer Question2; All Automotive Paint is Sprayed on with a Spray Gun.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 04-18-2021, 04:08 PM.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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    • #3
      Just a minor correction to Rich's post. Postwar Studebakers were painted/sprayed with enamel, EXCEPT for Avantis that were painted/sprayed with lacquer.
      Gary L.
      Wappinger, NY

      SDC member since 1968
      Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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      • #4
        IIRC, the enamel used was alkyd enamel - not acrylic. Avantis were sprayed with acrylic lacquer. FWIW, the old cellulose lacquer was very toxic.
        78 Avanti RQB 2792
        64 Avanti R1 R5408
        63 Avanti R1 R4551
        63 Avanti R1 R2281
        62 GT Hawk V15949
        56 GH 6032504
        56 GH 6032588
        55 Speedster 7160047
        55 Speedster 7165279

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        • #5
          Properly sprayed in a clean spray booth enamel (Acrylic, Urethane, Base Clear) is ready to go as soon as dry, although it may be buffed if desired or to cure a defect.
          Lacquer doesn't dry with a gloss and always requires buffing or wet sanding and buffing to bring out the gloss.

          Due to EPA regs I doubt lacquer is even manufactured anymore by the major auto paint manufacturers although it may be available from some specialty firms.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
            IIRC, the enamel used was alkyd enamel - not acrylic. Avantis were sprayed with acrylic lacquer. FWIW, the old cellulose lacquer was very toxic.
            When acrylic enamel became available (mid 60's don't remember exactly) Studebaker and the other auto makers using enamel switched to acrylic. They gave it a name like "Super Fantastic" and claimed it never needed waxing.

            With all sprayed paint the painter should wear a respirator. The paints that use an isocyanide catalyst are especially toxic. Isocyanide reacts with moisture. Your lungs are moist!
            Last edited by rbisacca; 04-18-2021, 05:16 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
              IIRC, the enamel used was alkyd enamel - not acrylic. Avantis were sprayed with acrylic lacquer. FWIW, the old cellulose lacquer was very toxic.
              That makes me remember all of the car spray painting that I did with cellulose lacquer and without a booth or any personal protective equipment. We didn't know better then (late 1950s - early 1970s).
              Gary L.
              Wappinger, NY

              SDC member since 1968
              Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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              • #8
                I appreciate all the help guys, you are all lifesavers!

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                • #9
                  Respirator cartridges need to be organic vapor cartridges.

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                  • #10
                    Most Auto Paint Stores over in this Country carry PPG, RM or Dupont Paints
                    The name DuPont has been gone from auto paint for a while. Now it is Axalta.

                    The PPG number you list is the color. If one wanted Lacquer, they ordered DAL50026. If they wanted enamel, they ordered DQE50026. That was Alkyd Enamel. PPG is no longer in the lacquer business. You can still get it online https://tcpglobal.com/pages/automotive-paint-home I also doubt they carry Alkyd enamel either anymore.

                    Lacquer was used to spot paint over enamel, as it dried quick. Yes, it could raise issues by swelling the enamel.

                    Are you doing spot repairs or looking to respray the 47?
                    Frank DuVal

                    50 Commander 4 door

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                    • #11
                      FWIW, the old cellulose lacquer was very toxic.
                      The lacquer was NOT toxic - the lacquer thinner fumes were toxic if safety rules were not followed. I've been shooting acrylic lacquer since the late 70's, and quickly learned to wear a mask with carbon filled cartridges or risk getting higher than a kite with a bad headache afterwards. It won't kill you, but it can cause extreme allergic reactions in people who don't wear the mask.

                      You want to talk toxic - let's talk Imron, one of the first 2 part epoxy finishes. It WILL kill you if you don't wear an air supply system.

                      Also, the term enamel has been misused so much by the general public it no longer means anything. And water based finishes can be toxic if used incorrectly. The trick is to be smart and use all the safety rules and gear recommended by the manufacturer - no matter what finish you are applying. You want safe, stick to water colors.

                      The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chris Pile View Post

                        The lacquer was NOT toxic - the lacquer thinner fumes were toxic .
                        You want to talk toxic - let's talk Imron, one of the first 2 part epoxy finishes. It WILL kill you if you don't wear an air supply system.
                        Since lacquer MUST be thinned to be sprayed that kinda makes it toxic doesn't it?

                        Imron is NOT epoxy. It is a polyurethane. I've sprayed much Imron and other polyurethanes wearing only a regular respirator. Probably not ideal but I still breathe OK.

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                        • #13
                          I've sprayed much Imron and other polyurethanes wearing only a regular respirator. Probably not ideal but I still breathe OK.
                          Sure you did.

                          The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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                          • #14
                            The last time I talked to the guys at the local auto paint supply store they strongly recommended wearing an air supply system, as Chris Pile notes above. These pipe in clean, outside air to your face. Can the best masks filter out the isocynates? I, personally, cannot afford to lose any more brain cells; I have just barely enough to get by now.

                            -Dwight

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rbisacca View Post

                              When acrylic enamel became available (mid 60's don't remember exactly) Studebaker and the other auto makers using enamel switched to acrylic. They gave it a name like "Super Fantastic" and claimed it never needed waxing.

                              With all sprayed paint the painter should wear a respirator. The paints that use an isocyanide catalyst are especially toxic. Isocyanide reacts with moisture. Your lungs are moist!
                              Just a comment-acrylic enamel can be used with a catalyst, or without. With catalization it can be color sanded and buffed, and if desired clear coated as well. Like any paint a precautionary seal coat should be applied before a color coat is applied. A seal coat also guards against any contamination that may be present as a result of previous prep work.

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