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Master cylinder outlet fitting - under floor - 59 Lark

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  • Brakes: Master cylinder outlet fitting - under floor - 59 Lark

    Now that the lines and wheel cylinders and master are done and installed, I'm battling a weep/leak at the outlet fitting or the two 3/8" line nuts, can't quite tell. I re-used the copper washers, banjo screw and Y-block from the old master, as I've done before on other projects, have ordered new 33/64" and 39/64" copper washers to be sure. The 185164 seems to be harder to find than the 185164, not sure why...?

    I'm wondering if others have installed the Y-fitting with the outlets pointing down to make the union nuts more visible, more accessible too? Or has this caused bleeding issues, air entrainment issues, etc.

    While Studebaker gave us the round hole to access the reservoir, I wouldn't have minded if they'd made a larger single rectangular cover to see the whole unit. The manner in which the lines have to curve to fit that block is pretty darn cramped.

    Any feedback here would be welcome. Thanks.

  • #2
    It's possible the copper washers are work hardened. I usually use new ones, however, I have heard you can anneal them by heating and allowing to cool gradually.
    78 Avanti RQB 2792
    64 Avanti R1 R5408
    63 Avanti R1 R4551
    63 Avanti R1 R2281
    62 GT Hawk V15949
    56 GH 6032504
    56 GH 6032588
    55 Speedster 7160047
    55 Speedster 7165279

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    • #3
      Its most likely the copper washers that are hardened and won't reseal. They are easy to find at any auto parts store.

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      • #4
        As mentioned above - they are work hardened. In reality, any used copper washer has been work hardened and should be annealed.

        The new production copper washers that I have used lately seem too hard to me, so I routinely anneal even a new copper washer.
        Paul
        Winston-Salem, NC
        Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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        • #5
          Thanks all.

          Any thoughts on flipping the outlet block to 6:00, or is that asking for trouble?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by NCDave51 View Post
            Thanks all.

            Any thoughts on flipping the outlet block to 6:00, or is that asking for trouble?
            Dave, it's been a long time since I looked underneath a early Lark with a frame-mounted master cylinder. I guess if you are running new brake lines anyway, you could do that. The only thing I can think of to consider is whether this will put the brake lines below the bottom of the frame. You don't want to risk damaging the brake lines with road debris or by high-centering the frame in that area.
            Paul
            Winston-Salem, NC
            Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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            • #7
              You need to closely examine those 2 Line Flares, unless you recently Made them and are sure they are not Flattened, Egged or Cracked.
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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              • #8
                Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                You need to closely examine those 2 Line Flares, unless you recently Made them and are sure they are not Flattened, Egged or Cracked.
                All new lines from Inline Tube out of Michigan. Hearing the above comments on annealing copper - and viewing several YouTubes from around the world - it seems this is something I’d overlooked, hadn’t even thought of before!

                I’m leaning towards the old (and thin) washers being the culprit.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by NCDave51 View Post
                  I’m leaning towards the old (and thin) washers being the culprit.
                  I had a bunch of 'kits' with the two different size NOS copper washers for the underfloor master cylinders, but have run out of them. All were sold on eBay and by advertising on the forum.
                  Paul
                  Winston-Salem, NC
                  Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by r1lark View Post

                    I had a bunch of 'kits' with the two different size NOS copper washers for the underfloor master cylinders, but have run out of them. All were sold on eBay and by advertising on the forum.
                    Thanks Paul - a Studebaker seller on eBay has a couple coming for me.

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                    • #11
                      New washers arrived and were nice and pliable. System all tight and leak free.

                      Note to my CASO self: spend the $3.00 for new washers next time.

                      Finally developed a good trick when reattaching that clutch pedal spring on the clip as well. Folks familiar with the under-floor masters can envision this:

                      1) once the bolt/nut are on, leave the bracket just loose enough to rotate with pliers
                      2) hook the spring on bracket
                      3) rotate bracket with pliers until horizontal, mindful that it’s under high tension
                      4) cinch the bracket to the support strap with a small vice grip for a free hand
                      5) tighten bolt/nut securely

                      Thanks all.

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                      • #12
                        about annealing: we did this on steam locomotives where the copper washers were not readily available: heat the washer to red hot, and plunge in water.
                        Ron Dame
                        '63 Champ

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ron Dame View Post
                          about annealing: we did this on steam locomotives where the copper washers were not readily available: heat the washer to red hot, and plunge in water.
                          Thanks Ron. Saw quite a few YouTube’s on the topic - luckily these were soft enough right out of the bag to avoid the need for heat.

                          This must be why a lot of copper washers are crush washers?

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                          • #14
                            yep. One use only ( In theory) but we've all reused them, right?
                            Ron Dame
                            '63 Champ

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