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Safety: unexpected surprises - 59 Lark

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  • NCDave51
    replied
    Originally posted by mw2013 View Post
    will easy oven take graffiti off of brick? is you ride getting new wheel bearings while you in there?
    Some will yes, especially the ones marked “commercial” or “heavy duty”. Most of the oven cleaners now contain more than just good old caustic soda, they contain chemicals like EGMBE or other alcoxy ethers.

    And no, I’m reinstalling the same bearings as before. I’ve had no indication (driving tests and visual inspection) to replace them. A good soaking and repacking will certainly give me the lifetime I expect with this Lark: 100 miles a year at 50 mph max!

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  • Lark Hunter
    replied
    Originally posted by mw2013 View Post
    will easy oven take graffiti off of brick?
    No. The best way is to apply your bricks after accelerating to at least 40mph in reverse. Do this five times in rapid succession, and your bricks will be cleaned and adjusted for another 30,000 miles of severe service. Don't forget to adjust your emergency brick at this time, too.

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  • Lark Hunter
    replied
    Originally posted by StudeRich View Post

    Yes, the Brake Re-liners USED to Care about correct and do the job right, but for most it has been many Years since that happened.
    This is a Case of "MORE" not being better!

    If the Self Energizing (Servo) Action cannot work along with the issues Joe Hall has found with the very poor Lining Material being Too hard to actually GRIP it is no wonder that our excellent Brake Systems do not work as intended and as when New.
    Wasn't aware of this. Guess I assumed that a brake re-liner, which is getting to be somewhat of a specialist operation (outside of mass rebuilders doing high volume stuff), would at least care enough to pick the appropriate lining material for the application... as well as applying it per the original engineering specifications. Sounds like another one of those things where it'll be necessary to do the additional homework before entrusting your stuff to just anybody.

    FWIW- From the little driving that I've done in my V8 Lark (so far), the brakes feel competent enough to handle modern traffic with few to no worries, and that's without power assist. Also had a 1969 Jeep Wagoneer in the family for awhile, and the drum brakes on it were capable of hauling the thing down from any speed... even 16 year old me couldn't get them to fade away.
    Last edited by Lark Hunter; 03-29-2021, 12:04 AM.

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  • mw2013
    replied
    will easy oven take graffiti off of brick? is you ride getting new wheel bearings while you in there?

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  • StudeRich
    replied
    Originally posted by Videoranger View Post
    I noticed the the chassis parts illustrations show the front shoe lining shorter on top also. It shows the lining starting at about the same location as the return spring hook on front primary shoes on the front and rear. Since the primary shoe engages drum first and then rotates to push secondary shoe until it stops at top anchor, the shorter lining reduces the tendency for the primary shoe to grab too quickly. The secondary shoe does probably 70% of the braking. The shop that relined the shoes for my 62 GT made them both the same length too and they're riveted and bonded. I am going to cut the front linings and drill out the first two rivets so I can chisel off a section of the primary shoe linings to correct the lengths for what I believe to be proper servo action. Not sure if it makes a significant difference, but this is how servo drum brake shoes were designed. I'm thinking the Stude chassis parts catalog pics are correct.
    Yes, the Brake Re-liners USED to Care about correct and do the job right, but for most it has been many Years since that happened.
    This is a Case of "MORE" not being better!

    If the Self Energizing (Servo) Action cannot work along with the issues Joe Hall has found with the very poor Lining Material being Too hard to actually GRIP it is no wonder that our excellent Brake Systems do not work as intended and as when New.

    Leave a comment:


  • Videoranger
    replied
    The straight ramp on the secondary side is to help wedge the shoe into position when pushed up for braking. The curved ramp on the primary side is to help the shoe ride back up into position by the return spring when the brake cylinders go back in. I find it's best for me to know as much as I can about how assemblies actually work together so I don't miss something necessary to putting things together as intended. Sometimes it takes thinking "why would they do that" and then doing lots of research.

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  • NCDave51
    replied
    Note that the anchor is curved on the primary side, and flat on the secondary. Their reactions are different.

    I do remember that Bendix systems had unequal lengths, yes.

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  • Videoranger
    replied
    I noticed the the chassis parts illustrations show the front shoe lining shorter on top also. It shows the lining starting at about the same location as the return spring hook on front primary shoes on the front and rear. Since the primary shoe engages drum first and then rotates to push secondary shoe until it stops at top anchor, the shorter lining reduces the tendency for the primary shoe to grab too quickly. The secondary shoe does probably 70% of the braking. The shop that relined the shoes for my 62 GT made them both the same length too and they're riveted and bonded. I am going to cut the front linings and drill out the first two rivets so I can chisel off a section of the primary shoe linings to correct the lengths for what I believe to be proper servo action. Not sure if it makes a significant difference, but this is how servo drum brake shoes were designed. I'm thinking the Stude chassis parts catalog pics are correct.

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  • NCDave51
    replied
    The Wagner units that came off and the new ones that are going on are equal length. I thought the same thing.

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  • Videoranger
    replied
    On a servo brake system, shouldn't the front primary shoe lining be shorter to keep brakes from locking up during hard braking?

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  • NCDave51
    replied
    Awaiting the new front drums and studs, I figured out a decent way to separate the junk drums from the hubs, and to also press the studs from the hub - without using a press. If you’ve seen this before, forgive me. I just figured others could learn from this tricky exercise.

    The drums are swaged onto the five studs at their bases, immediately as they pass through the drum. (At some earlier point in the 50s the drums were behind the hub base, my 59 has the drum over top). The best way would be to find a metal hole saw to just address these points, but there would be some risk of weakening the base of the stud if you were to accidentally strike them. So out came the angle grinder with a cutoff wheel, then grinding the stubs and swages flush, and the hub easily separated.

    Now you’re left with “stubs”. These original drums had the Wagner smooth studs (not serrated or splined) with the “W-circle” logo on the head. I used an impact socket that was slightly bigger than the head diameter, and used the next size down as a support 180 degrees across from this. As these sockets are all the same length, they give a good balance and lift the hub away from the concrete floor.

    With some heat from a propane torch and then a good dose of WD-40 or other penetrating oil, I used a metal drift just under the size of the stub diameter and gave swift blows with a hand maul, sending the stub into the socket below. Came out cleanly with no distortion to the hub, given that the socket supported the stresses immediately around the stub.

    Then, with all the components cleaned and the backing plates painted and dried, I reassembled the front brakes in no time at all. That’s the nice thing about US cars of this era, these brakes are all very common and easy to remember. Always pay attention that the small arrow on the upper anchor is always pointing to the primary shoe, meaning the arrow will be out and pointing forward on the left wheel and inside and pointing forward on the right!

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  • NCDave51
    replied
    A long time fan of oven cleaner as a degreaser and lifter of weakened paint - proving nicely again on the backing plates. Left has been brushed in spirits, scraped of grime and in a 10 minute soak in Easy-Off. Right is the same, but has just been pressure washed.

    Left to dry, the plates are ready for painting, no further wiping nor sanding necessary. Going with semi-gloss black. Paint that is sound after these steps can stay on as far as I’m concerned.

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  • NCDave51
    replied
    New drums and lugs from S-I on their way this morning. Thanks for all the feedback - these ones are just too far gone.

    While the rear drums aren’t wonderful, I’ll trust the 100% new front set up to give the estimated 60+% braking effort. New lines, shoes, hoses, MC and wheel cyls will complete the job.

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  • Lark Hunter
    replied
    Originally posted by NCDave51 View Post
    The drums on this 60,000 mile Lark appear to have turned into corduroy, with all shoes matching male-female. How does this even occur?!
    It honestly appears that someone ran the brakes down metal to metal at some point, and continued driving it that way for awhile. Then they installed new shoes without turning or replacing the drums. I've seen that quality of work a few times.


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  • mw2013
    replied
    oh wow, those are some crummy brakes

    i didn't trust what was represented to me, it's never the complete picture, to be fair, PO"s can't do everything, otherwise my lark would have cost a lot more, perhaps PO's are less mechanically competent, than the next owner? who knows? or the other way around.

    my stude have been a learning curve. and a 5 month long test drive.

    had to verify my car, took 5 months to access and somewhat rectify , now i know what is a ticking time bomb on my lark and what band aid worked, I am aware now, what it can and cannot do and what it should not do. ( drum brakes lol)

    at least you'll have good brakes after this

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