Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Buying heat insulator 9266 for Edelbrock 1406 , are studes dual plane manifolds?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I lived in the California desert for 6 years, and only drove Studes then, so have been where you're at with hot restarts and other heat related fuel problems, but never had one stall in traffic. Usually once they start and smooth out, they are good to go, till the next hot restart. So you may have other problems, in addition to the hot restart issue. Though if engine temp reaches around 225, the electric FP will start to capitate, causing the motor to die, and you WILL have problems restarting till it cools down.

    It appears you already have a 3/8" aluminum spacer, so adding the one you recently bought will NOT significantly improve hot restarts. All any of them do is delay the problem, but do not eliminate it. In addition to a spacer, once installed an aluminum shield that covered the intake manifold above the exhaust tunnel, and that made a slight difference, but nothing earth shattering. I also had a discussion with a guy who was lucky enough to own an aluminum intake manifold, and he told me all it did was delay the problem also.

    I used to do seasonal stat changes there, 160 in summer and 180/195 in winter, but in summer there engine temps were typically ran 195-210, especially with AC, which all my Studes had. Once the motor reaches 200 or so, all stats (160-195) are wide open, so it really doesn't matter which you run, except a hotter stat will bring the motor up to that temp quicker. I have tried blocking the heat tunnel in the manifold, and it slows down heat up time better than all other measures combined, but so much so, the electric choke will open too early and cause the car to run 'cold natured' for a bit, even after coming up to normal op temp. That's probably why the R gaskets have a hole in them about 1/2" diameter.

    I also installed 3-4 row radiators while out there, including a, 'desert cooler' style, and they only delayed the heat up, but were good for going up long upgrades, though still usually needed to turn off the AC. Also helpful, is a 16" electric fan in front of the radiator (left the OEM style fan in place, but used 5-6 blade). When stuck in traffic, to avoid overheating, I'd switch the AC off and the fan on, till I got moving again. I also used the fan when stopped briefly, i.e. gas station or rest stop; I'd switch it on and leave it on till ready to restart the car. But be careful, since it will drain the battery in 30-40 minutes. In an emergency situation, you can also turn the heater on HI and leave it on, and it will actually move the gauge down about 5 degrees, which is real helpful if you are bordering on 225.

    Since you have already invested a lot of time and $ in your car, and are actually driving it, I'd seriously consider EFI. It is the ONLY way to eliminate ALL heat related fuel problems. All other measures, combined, will only delay the problems, but after 20 miles in 100 degree ambient temps, they all get hot enough to have problems. I'd also recommend installing an in-tank pump with the EFI, though frame mount would probably be OK. If you go that route, there are lots to choose from, and each has strengths and weaknesses. I installed Hamilton Fuel Injection systems in both of my GTs in 2012 and 2013, and said good by to heat related fuel problems once and for all. When I drove the 62GT from Kentucky to LA about 6-7 years ago I revisited old friends in the desert, and drove quite a bit there, NO heat related fuel problems whatsoever, and the total trip was about 5000, due to a meandering route.

    If installing another EFI, I'd choose HFI again, since it uses all OEM components from 1980s-1990s GM vehicles, still available at FLAPS everywhere, and includes a modified Stude distributor for ESC (electronic spark control) by the ECU. I was the first Studebaker customer for the HFI owner (Bill Hamilton), and my ignorance caused he and I a lot of grief, till I climbed a learning curve. Installing another one would be a breeze, since I now know everything not to do. LOL. I would not hesitate to take either of the GTs back for another visit to the desert, and heat related fuel problems would be the last thing I'd be concerned with. If you decide to go with one of the many Chinese EFI kits out there, just read the instructions on the box. If you chose HFI, I'd volunteer to tutor you through the install. Just some things to think about.

    Comment


    • #17
      I had a similar problem where one of my Avantis was stalling at a stop. The heat riser was hanging up. Make sure that it moves freely or remove it as has been already suggested.
      78 Avanti RQB 2792
      64 Avanti R1 R5408
      63 Avanti R1 R4551
      63 Avanti R1 R2281
      62 GT Hawk V15949
      56 GH 6032504
      56 GH 6032588
      55 Speedster 7160047
      55 Speedster 7165279

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
        I had a similar problem where one of my Avantis was stalling at a stop. The heat riser was hanging up. Make sure that it moves freely or remove it as has been already suggested.
        I have had all mine wired open for years, even decades. Totally unnecessary, even in colder climates. Maybe there's use fo r them in Alaska, or Siberia, not sure.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
          I had a similar problem where one of my Avantis was stalling at a stop. The heat riser was hanging up. Make sure that it moves freely or remove it as has been already suggested.
          my stalling was caused by my thinking i can better tune the idle screw via vacuum gauge, it was not.... someone tune it perfect to start and my tampering with it caused idle issues that i chase, so stalling was because It was in the moderately erratic settings, and the speed was set too low, hence it tendency to stall, i need to upped the richness and the speed, but there is a fine line, the stall speed in the torque converter is low ( i like that) so it wants to pull off the line at even 700 rpm

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by JoeHall View Post
            I lived in the California desert for 6 years, and only drove Studes then, so have been where you're at with hot restarts and other heat related fuel problems, but never had one stall in traffic. Usually once they start and smooth out, they are good to go, till the next hot restart. So you may have other problems, in addition to the hot restart issue. Though if engine temp reaches around 225, the electric FP will start to capitate, causing the motor to die, and you WILL have problems restarting till it cools down.

            It appears you already have a 3/8" aluminum spacer, so adding the one you recently bought will NOT significantly improve hot restarts. All any of them do is delay the problem, but do not eliminate it. In addition to a spacer, once installed an aluminum shield that covered the intake manifold above the exhaust tunnel, and that made a slight difference, but nothing earth shattering. I also had a discussion with a guy who was lucky enough to own an aluminum intake manifold, and he told me all it did was delay the problem also.

            I used to do seasonal stat changes there, 160 in summer and 180/195 in winter, but in summer there engine temps were typically ran 195-210, especially with AC, which all my Studes had. Once the motor reaches 200 or so, all stats (160-195) are wide open, so it really doesn't matter which you run, except a hotter stat will bring the motor up to that temp quicker. I have tried blocking the heat tunnel in the manifold, and it slows down heat up time better than all other measures combined, but so much so, the electric choke will open too early and cause the car to run 'cold natured' for a bit, even after coming up to normal op temp. That's probably why the R gaskets have a hole in them about 1/2" diameter.

            I also installed 3-4 row radiators while out there, including a, 'desert cooler' style, and they only delayed the heat up, but were good for going up long upgrades, though still usually needed to turn off the AC. Also helpful, is a 16" electric fan in front of the radiator (left the OEM style fan in place, but used 5-6 blade). When stuck in traffic, to avoid overheating, I'd switch the AC off and the fan on, till I got moving again. I also used the fan when stopped briefly, i.e. gas station or rest stop; I'd switch it on and leave it on till ready to restart the car. But be careful, since it will drain the battery in 30-40 minutes. In an emergency situation, you can also turn the heater on HI and leave it on, and it will actually move the gauge down about 5 degrees, which is real helpful if you are bordering on 225.

            Since you have already invested a lot of time and $ in your car, and are actually driving it, I'd seriously consider EFI. It is the ONLY way to eliminate ALL heat related fuel problems. All other measures, combined, will only delay the problems, but after 20 miles in 100 degree ambient temps, they all get hot enough to have problems. I'd also recommend installing an in-tank pump with the EFI, though frame mount would probably be OK. If you go that route, there are lots to choose from, and each has strengths and weaknesses. I installed Hamilton Fuel Injection systems in both of my GTs in 2012 and 2013, and said good by to heat related fuel problems once and for all. When I drove the 62GT from Kentucky to LA about 6-7 years ago I revisited old friends in the desert, and drove quite a bit there, NO heat related fuel problems whatsoever, and the total trip was about 5000, due to a meandering route.

            If installing another EFI, I'd choose HFI again, since it uses all OEM components from 1980s-1990s GM vehicles, still available at FLAPS everywhere, and includes a modified Stude distributor for ESC (electronic spark control) by the ECU. I was the first Studebaker customer for the HFI owner (Bill Hamilton), and my ignorance caused he and I a lot of grief, till I climbed a learning curve. Installing another one would be a breeze, since I now know everything not to do. LOL. I would not hesitate to take either of the GTs back for another visit to the desert, and heat related fuel problems would be the last thing I'd be concerned with. If you decide to go with one of the many Chinese EFI kits out there, just read the instructions on the box. If you chose HFI, I'd volunteer to tutor you through the install. Just some things to think about.
            thanks for your generous offer Mr Hall, I did for a brief flash moment consider EFI, but the though fled and i circled back to the heat defeat mode, i need to re-read your writing to catch all of it.

            note on the thermostat, my cooling system is very efficient, after installing a window to the engine triple gauges: i.e. temps never exceeding the thermostat rating at 180, i surmise the system kept the 160 stat closed, but still a guess

            Click image for larger version

Name:	103_0152.JPG
Views:	96
Size:	93.1 KB
ID:	1881839Click image for larger version

Name:	103_0169.JPG
Views:	90
Size:	97.6 KB
ID:	1881840
            i already have an e-pump at the rear of the car, perhaps get a higher pressure to replace, but don't the lines need to be high pressure capable?

            Click image for larger version

Name:	103_0142.JPG
Views:	93
Size:	65.1 KB
ID:	1881841

            additonally don't i have to install a bung on a down-pipe to sensor o2? frankly I don't know the difference between HFI vs EFI

            what are the estimate cost associated with the implementation of these systems?

            Comment


            • #21
              Do you have the "dashpot" installed. The purpose is to keep the car from stalling when letting off the throttle. My Avantis have a vacuum operated one. The vacuum normally pulls the plunger away from the throttle linkage. When the vacuum decreases, like when the engine stalls, the punger increases the throttle opening to prevent the stall.
              78 Avanti RQB 2792
              64 Avanti R1 R5408
              63 Avanti R1 R4551
              63 Avanti R1 R2281
              62 GT Hawk V15949
              56 GH 6032504
              56 GH 6032588
              55 Speedster 7160047
              55 Speedster 7165279

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
                Do you have the "dashpot" installed. The purpose is to keep the car from stalling when letting off the throttle. My Avantis have a vacuum operated one. The vacuum normally pulls the plunger away from the throttle linkage. When the vacuum decreases, like when the engine stalls, the punger increases the throttle opening to prevent the stall.
                i don't know what that is, but normally it runs fine, the stalling is not the big problem , the not being able to start is

                Comment


                • #23
                  we'll i took off the manifold and i stuffed the heads with aluminum foil but the right side had a pipe from the manifold so i had to stuff the manifold around the pipe ( the easiest induction system R and R ever)

                  but

                  the car started spitting out bits of foil , when i put in a single sheet, and the car felt like it had an exhaust obstruction , am i suppose to stuff the heads or the manifolds?

                  i am trying this stuff first , I called HFI , nice fella, it's 1400.00 bucks I may need to put off for later Click image for larger version  Name:	20210223_135634.jpg Views:	0 Size:	117.0 KB ID:	1881892 what is with this tube, if i get an R2 gasket do i cut this off?

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	20210223_135948.jpg Views:	0 Size:	102.0 KB ID:	1881893 am i suppose to stuff the heads or the manifold, both ways seem flimsy

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	20210223_142534.jpg Views:	0 Size:	160.7 KB ID:	1881894Click image for larger version  Name:	20210223_144127.jpg Views:	0 Size:	71.1 KB ID:	1881895 like i said it was spitting aluminum bits of foil out the tail pipes, luckily i have cherry bomb mufflers and not some reverse flow

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	20210223_143009.jpg Views:	0 Size:	152.3 KB ID:	1881896
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by mw2013; 02-23-2021, 04:45 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
                    I had a similar problem where one of my Avantis was stalling at a stop. The heat riser was hanging up. Make sure that it moves freely or remove it as has been already suggested.
                    i checked, i saw no heat riser on either side between the manifold and down pipes, is that possible for a 289 full flow? at least i don't have to deal with that

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Lot's of idea's here.. Some good, some..Well..
                      Here's what I do. Here's what I sell. Here's a source..

                      Myers Studebaker in Ohio sells a nice AFB 4 bolt hole heat insulator carb base gasket.
                      You will need to trim the GM a/t kickdown tab to use this carb without an adapter. See attached pic) (my preference).
                      I do not recommend bending the tab. That throttle shaft does not tolerate abuse.

                      I sell composite intake gaskets that have no heat crossover passage holes in them.
                      Sell the intake gaskets as a kit. The kit includes a pair of gaskets, two very thin stainless steel block-off plates that get sandwiched between the intake gasket and the head. These protect the gasket from getting torched by the exhaust pulses.
                      The kit also includes four stainless steel carb studs and four stainless steel nuts (short on nuts right now. Awaiting an order,

                      OK, so much for the sales pitch...

                      Foil in the intake heat crossover is not a good choice. Neither is ceramic. Neither is filling it with molten aluminum.
                      The exhaust gasses are almost hot enough to melt aluminum and the pulses will chip away at it.

                      Yes, you will need to block open your heat riser valve (a 10-minute coat hanger job).
                      You can also take the blade out (a pita).
                      You could gut it, remove the shaft, tap the shaft hole and install a pair of bolts. All viable solutions.

                      This is a reasonable upgrade. Don't overthink it. I have done close to 300 of these 2bbl AFB conversion intakes.
                      Lots of happy owners out there.

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	AFB AT Trim Line.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	99.0 KB
ID:	1881902

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20181117_115421.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	128.7 KB
ID:	1881903

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	DNH Intakes - SI Order - 201215 (9).JPG
Views:	77
Size:	179.1 KB
ID:	1881904




                      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                      Jeff


                      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
                        Lot's of idea's here.. Some good, some..Well..
                        Here's what I do. Here's what I sell. Here's a source..

                        Myers Studebaker in Ohio sells a nice AFB 4 bolt hole heat insulator carb base gasket.
                        You will need to trim the GM a/t kickdown tab to use this carb without an adapter. See attached pic) (my preference).
                        I do not recommend bending the tab. That throttle shaft does not tolerate abuse.

                        I sell composite intake gaskets that have no heat crossover passage holes in them.
                        Sell the intake gaskets as a kit. The kit includes a pair of gaskets, two very thin stainless steel block-off plates that get sandwiched between the intake gasket and the head. These protect the gasket from getting torched by the exhaust pulses.
                        The kit also includes four stainless steel carb studs and four stainless steel nuts (short on nuts right now. Awaiting an order,

                        OK, so much for the sales pitch...

                        Foil in the intake heat crossover is not a good choice. Neither is ceramic. Neither is filling it with molten aluminum.
                        The exhaust gasses are almost hot enough to melt aluminum and the pulses will chip away at it.

                        Yes, you will need to block open your heat riser valve (a 10-minute coat hanger job).
                        You can also take the blade out (a pita).
                        You could gut it, remove the shaft, tap the shaft hole and install a pair of bolts. All viable solutions.

                        This is a reasonable upgrade. Don't overthink it. I have done close to 300 of these 2bbl AFB conversion intakes.
                        Lots of happy owners out there.

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	AFB AT Trim Line.jpg Views:	0 Size:	99.0 KB ID:	1881902

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20181117_115421.jpg Views:	0 Size:	128.7 KB ID:	1881903

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	DNH Intakes - SI Order - 201215 (9).JPG Views:	0 Size:	179.1 KB ID:	1881904



                        i am completely lost, so you say my problem, is so prevalent that you have put together a "kit" that comprises of Composite intake gaskets? what is your company and how much do you charge?, do you have a web page and some pictures of this "kit" i would like to order it, but do i need to by the myer's insulator, or can i go with something else? and can't i use my studs and nut?

                        there is now fel pro metal gasket in there now

                        and someone said R2 gaskets will not have the exhaust holes in them, and another said they will have a 3/8" in hole in them.

                        do i even need to cut the kickdown tab? look below seems to clear fine

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	20210223_143017.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	159.3 KB
ID:	1881919



                        what wrong with your first recommendation of these? can i avoid having to trim the kickdown tab?, i don't have anything to cut it with.

                        https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...+8723&_sacat=0

                        https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...edelbrock+8723

                        finally i did not see a heat riser, in my car, i looked and i checked both sides, do you have a picture and describe how it works so i can un work it?


                        Last edited by mw2013; 02-23-2021, 06:15 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          You REALLY need to Read a bit better.

                          Quote: "This is a reasonable upgrade. Don't overthink it. I have done close to 300 of these 2bbl AFB conversion intakes.
                          Lots of happy owners out there."


                          But maybe Jeff did not make it clear enough, in addition to the Special Heat Port Block-off Gasket Set, you need Jeff's Bored out 2 Barrel to AFB/Edelbrock 4 brl. INTAKE MANIFOLD!

                          That is why he said to cut the Ford Automatic Trans. Throttle lever piece off, BECAUSE you will be tossing that POC adapter and Intake Manifold or exchanging it and putting the Carb directly on a Thick Gasket on the Correct AFB Manifold just like the Factory did and it WILL hit.

                          ________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

                          Also, all this worrying about the High Temps. in L.A. ... THAT almost Never happens, unless you are in a Parade on the 4th. of July on a 80 Degree plus Day going 5 MPH!!

                          I lived my whole Life in the South Bay Area: Torrance, Redondo Beach, Hawthorne, Gardena, Lawndale and always drove Studebaker V8's and we never encountered ANY overheating on over a Dozen Studes. with 50/50 Prestone and Distilled Water & a 160 Thermostat.

                          All the Hot climate issues Joe was having were in the Calif. Desert!
                          So I am guessing you do not live in Palm Springs.
                          I lived in Lancaster and still had no overheating issues.
                          Last edited by StudeRich; 02-23-2021, 09:26 PM.
                          StudeRich
                          Second Generation Stude Driver,
                          Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I did this a couple of years ago and I am very pleased with the result. I did the following:
                            1) I replaced the heat riser valve with a spacer.
                            2) I packed the hot exhaust flow through space under the Edelbrock carb with small compressed balls of aluminum foil stuffing in as many as I could as tightly as I could.
                            3) However, at each end of the cross over I left an empty space of about 3/4” deep. Into that void I packed in thoroughly kneeded/mixed high heat JB WELD Epoxy Putty (or was it SteelStick—not sure which it was). I then l shaved off the excess with a single edge razor blade so it was perfectly level with the mating surface of the intake manifold.
                            4) Then I mounted the intake manifold using two composition gaskets with the cross over ports blocked off.

                            For me this has eliminated slow idle and engine dying at stoplights in hot weather and difficulty restarting a hot engine in hot weather.
                            Stan Gundry
                            www.AvantiPublishing.com

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Here are some photos
                              Stan Gundry
                              www.AvantiPublishing.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                                You REALLY need to Read a bit better.

                                Quote: "This is a reasonable upgrade. Don't overthink it. I have done close to 300 of these 2bbl AFB conversion intakes.
                                Lots of happy owners out there."


                                But maybe Jeff did not make it clear enough, in addition to the Special Heat Port Block-off Gasket Set, you need Jeff's Bored out 2 Barrel to AFB/Edelbrock 4 brl. INTAKE MANIFOLD!

                                That is why he said to cut the Ford Automatic Trans. Throttle lever piece off, BECAUSE you will be tossing that POC adapter and Intake Manifold or exchanging it and putting the Carb directly on a Thick Gasket on the Correct AFB Manifold just like the Factory did and it WILL hit.

                                ________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

                                Also, all this worrying about the High Temps. in L.A. ... THAT almost Never happens, unless you are in a Parade on the 4th. of July on a 80 Degree plus Day going 5 MPH!!

                                I lived my whole Life in the South Bay Area: Torrance, Redondo Beach, Hawthorne, Gardena, Lawndale and always drove Studebaker V8's and we never encountered ANY overheating on over a Dozen Studes. with 50/50 Prestone and Distilled Water & a 160 Thermostat.

                                All the Hot climate issues Joe was having were in the Calif. Desert!
                                So I am guessing you do not live in Palm Springs.
                                I lived in Lancaster and still had no overheating issues.
                                maybe my hard starting is not heat related, and he did not say he was selling a modded manifold, if i go thru all that, maybe i go EFI of HFI
                                Last edited by mw2013; 02-23-2021, 09:39 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X