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  • Engine: Metallic looking oil drained from my newly rebuilt 289

    After rebuilding my 289 in my Hawk I'm seeing like a small metallic specks in the drained oil.
    The best way to explain it is that the oil looks like black metallic paint.
    Theres 600 miles on this engine since rebuilding and the oil pressure is great at 65 PSI at road speed with about 15 PSI at an idle (both pressures are with a hot engine).
    When the engine is cold it gets nearly 95 PSI but I think thats because I'm using 20-50 oil.
    I did get rid of that fiber timing gear and installed a aluminum replacement.
    The new gear sounded like a supercharger back in the first few hours of the run.
    I suspect that is where my metallic looking oil is coming from but I thought I would run this situation by you guys.
    I cut open the filter and found nothing out of the ordinary.
    For now I'm thinking this is normal for a newly rebuilt engine.

    Dan

  • #2
    Black oil in 600 miles? Metallic particles in the oil? Better get your oil checked pronto.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZx9GgFl6OE

    Comment


    • #3
      Metallic sparklies in the oil is NOT...normal.
      But you may be correct about the particles coming from the aluminum gear. Pay close attention to the ignition timing. If the gear wears too much, the cam and ignition timing will vary all over. It will retard during acceleration, and advance under deceleration. NOT GOOD..!
      Have you checked the oil with a magnet ? That'll tell you...ferris - steel/iron or non-ferrous - aluminum.
      I'd also dump the idea for the 20-50 for a fresh engine. Especially in the colder weather. It doesn't flow too well when cold. A 10W-30 or 10W-40 would be closer to what I'd use. Save the 20W-50 for after about 80,000 miles..!

      Mike

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      • #4
        The 15 PSI if your Gauge is correct, is not what I would expect on a Fresh Engine, fully warmed with 20W/50 Oil at idle.
        Even my worn ones idle at 35 to 40 PSI.

        What Year Hawk are we talking about? Partial Flow or Full Flow Block?
        How "Professional" was the Person installing and fitting the Cam Bearings?
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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        • #5
          Was your rebuilt engine line bored on the crankshaft?
          If the machine shop is not skilled at gear driven camshafts, and he 'centered' his boring bar on the crankshaft centerline, he could have taken several thousandths of an inch off of the block side of the crank bore on the block. This, in effect, will raise the crankshaft and cause gear interference between the crank gear and the aluminum cam gear. That could cause the whining noise you were hearing. Fresh engines will show more metal particles than a broken-in engine.
          Being observant on your end is a good thing.
          HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

          Jeff


          Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



          Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ChampionRuss View Post
            Black oil in 600 miles? Metallic particles in the oil? Better get your oil checked pronto.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZx9GgFl6OE
            I agree, test the oil and find out what metals it contains. and sadly, prepare for a tear-down to correct it. If you are lucky, teh rocker shafts were not cleaned and teh new oil pressure is flushing them out. Easy to remove and clean. BUt don't keep running it until you know what is going on.
            Ron Dame
            '63 Champ

            Comment


            • #7
              What Jeff said. I would change oil and filter and watch it close and change oil again in a couple hundred miles. See if you still have the metal in oil. The whine from cam gear happens some times but most times go away after a few miles. A matched set of gears helps stop this. Oil pressure is a little low but if it stays there is workable.

              Comment


              • #8
                I certainly would not use 20-50 oil in a new or newly rebuilt engine. I would use 0W20 or 10W30 at the heaviest (most viscous).
                Also, I would not go that long prior to the first oil change.
                Hopefully, you are removing metal particles that were not fully cleaned from the engine upon rebuild. If not, you have problems.
                Gary L.
                Wappinger, NY

                SDC member since 1968
                Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                Comment


                • #9
                  All of my cars have super magnets epoxied to the drain plugs. That pulls some of the metallic parts out of the oil.
                  RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                  17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                  10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                  10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                  4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                  5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                  56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                  60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RadioRoy View Post
                    All of my cars have super magnets epoxied to the drain plugs. That pulls some of the metallic parts out of the oil.
                    Only good at pulling ferrous particles out, not things like from an aluminum cam gear.
                    Gary L.
                    Wappinger, NY

                    SDC member since 1968
                    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by studegary View Post

                      Only good at pulling ferrous particles out, not things like from an aluminum cam gear.
                      Right. I should have said ferrous metallic particles, but I assumed folks would know that.
                      RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                      17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                      10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                      10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                      4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                      5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                      56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                      60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Send the oil in. Farm machinery dealers do this but I'd guess parts stores do to===or just google it. I'd suspect the timing gear. A lot of these things come from the other side of the Pacific and aren't made with very great precision. The analysis will tell you if it is Babbit metal, ferrous, or Al. I've heard of and I suspect I have a set of bad main and rod bearings that have come from China. Do the idiots who run replacement parts companies actually believe having precision parts made in China is going to work out?? And do try to avoid Chinese ball and roller bearings too. Diagnose the problem!! Do not do not do not tear into the engine without having a pretty good idea what the problem is... (Roy: I suspect nearly 100% of the readers here do know that, but of the general public, I'd bet less than 50%)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One of those situations where the course of action depends on how much $$$ and labor you want to spend.
                          600 miles and the noise has satisfactorily diminished, the mismatched parts have ‘self machined’ into a compatible fit or ‘worn in’.
                          If the block was line bored ‘on center’ during the rebuild thus moving cam and crankshaft center-lines closer together, as DEEPNHOCK mentions above, it is something that cannot be easily nor cheaply repaired, as replacing anything other than the entire engine block will not restore the factory dimensions.
                          I am rather certain that my old Studebaker dealer would recommend a series of oil and filter changes at intervals of 2000 miles or less using straight 30w and the factory recommend treatment with STP as being the first course of action. Allowing of course, that if other worrisome engine noises, oil burning, or diminished performance develop, engine disassembly and repair may become necessary.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I bought a new Chevy S10 in 2003 and on the first oil change the magnetic drain plug had a coating particles covering it. It didn’t have any since. It has 168,000 miles and still runs fine. I believe they were the result of the rings seating and maybe other machined parts. The 20-50 oil should be fine as you can get it with high zinc content and has a higher viscosity as the temperature increases. Your oil pressure at temperature is within the specs in the shop manual.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My 1957 Hawk has the original 289 with the partial flow filter system.
                              The timing gear whine was much louder in the spring than this fall when I did the final oil change before I stored it for the winter.
                              I only run this car in the warmer months so I believe that 2050 oil will work good as it does in all my other "summer" cars.
                              I change my oil when there's 2K miles max on it, but it usually has much less miles since I drive different cars during the summer.
                              I have a 66 Plymouth with 240000 miles on it which I have been running 2050 ever since I have owned it.
                              I use 2050 because they removed the ZDDP/ZDTP from motor oils.
                              I plan to check this oil with a magnet and see if these particals "stick".
                              The metallic looks too "bright" to be ferrous but I will still check it out.
                              I may pull the fuel pump plate and take a look at the timing gear in the spring with a bore camera.
                              Also I plan to check the lubrication hole in the oil pressure relief valve ( the one that sprays oil on the timing gears).
                              Also got plans to do a magnet on the drain plug.
                              All the bearings were USA made with the possible exception of the mains because I needed .040 under bearings (hard to get).

                              Dan

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