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brake drum and hub swage tool

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  • Videoranger
    replied
    Has anyone had experience using the Ford type swege tool on studebaker hubs and drums?

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  • StudeRich
    replied
    That Poor Avanti has been around a Lot longer than most, being only #1089, I guess it gets points for Longevity, not so much Perfection!

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  • firestoper 25
    replied
    Gee whizz guys I am learning a ton about my 63R1089's rear stoppers here! Thank you. I have (I thought, maybe NOT now) the parts needed to do the required out of long term storage brake refresh on my car. Last week I took off the pass. side rear wheel for a quick look see before starting the winter project, well what a surprise. The drum (un-captured, spell it any way you want) darned near fell off on my foot. Well that made the inspection easy on this side, but not so on the drivers side rear. It seems to be on by the book. I put everything back together and went to hide in the house! This poor car was someones red haired step child that went south for the season..... Every time I try to put together a repair schedule I find another basket of snakes. Not complaining, I sure am NOT bored or out of things to keep my mind active. Your comments are encouraged. Sherm / Green Bay / 63R1089 & toasted 63R1182

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  • DEEPNHOCK
    replied
    All I was doing was providing information based on Dana engineering. No theory there.
    But your comment about later parts sources not engineered as a package also has merit.
    Dana built millions of these tapered hub swaged flange drum units for numerous manufacturers.
    That does not mean that there are better solutions, especially decades later.
    What concerns me is the shortcuts that get posted in today's litigious society.
    When it comes to brakes.. I would tend to be very careful about what gets posted.
    Soldier on....

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  • Videoranger
    replied
    Joe, excellent response. The original drums are composite construction with a thinner steel face cast into the cast iron drum. the steel has different metal characteristics that allow swagging the studs without potential to fracture like cast iron. the repos are all cast as one piece and have a machined face to mate with hub and wheel rim. I find your approach to be a good one. I am using an NOS drum so swagging the original spec suds would be best I am thinking. When getting my brake parts together to take to brake and clutch reline shop I found one of my rear hubs damaged by an axle key put in backwards. This caused the inside end of the hub keyway to be pushed up and crack. This makes the hub unusable any more. I was going to replace the hub, but found a complete hub/drum assembly that was machined 0.010 over. I'll have both sides machined the same before reinstalling. Parts cost on brake restoration is really not too bad, but if I wasn't doing the labor besides machining, the labor cost would be very high. Lots of hours spent to do the job well with cleaning assemblies and painting back plates etc. . Good thing I enjoy working on my Hawk GT and look forward to using the brakes again out on the curved roads. The Hawk really handles well and hugs flat on the road. Lots to love about these cars and a lot of things to learn.
    Last edited by Videoranger; 12-12-2020, 10:11 AM.

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  • JoeHall
    replied
    Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
    Bottom line.
    If your drum indexes off the hub, then swaging is not needed.
    If the drum has no shoulder, then all the forces of the drum are transferred to the studs (except for the clamping force of the nuts). Any loss of torque allows drum to hub movement and could feel like an out of round situation.
    Not the correct mounting methodology. Swaging locks the drum to the hub via the serrated portion of the stud.
    I understand the theory, and this may be generally true for NOS drums and hubs. But NOS bare drums (without hub attached) is almost non-existent. Currently available bare drums are not thin as the OEM was; OEM is about .100" thick in the area around the stud base, whereas Chinese repro is closer to .250". So longer based studs must be used with repro drums. Only then could you entertain the idea of swaging the studs to lock the drum in place.

    However, another problem would likely present, since the faces of repro drums are not made of the same metal as OEM. While OEM is tinny and bendable, repro is more like cast iron, and would likely crack under pressure of swaging.

    One more problem comes present, the studs are often not perfectly centered on the hub. As a result, if longer studs are installed to match repro drums, you then have excess radial runout that must first be turned in a lathe. I was astounded when my machinist told me this, but later even more astounded to learn my early Moser flanged axles had the same malady. I later discussed this with one of our trusted vendors who was aware and said Moser, when confronted, confessed their machine had been out of spec, early on, but is fixed now.

    My solution to the above was to have the machinist mate the hub to the drum for least radial runout, then mark the drum and hub for future reference. He advised against swaging, and I agreed. So now, the drums are, "indexed" on the studs with a tap on fit, and about 1/4" shoulder to ride on, about same as if on a center nub, if one existed.

    All the above is based on actual experience. In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there often is. This is especially true when trying to mix Chinese repro drums with OEM Studebaker hubs. Good luck in whatever path you choose, but find a good machinist to work with you, or you may screw up more than you fix.
    Last edited by JoeHall; 12-12-2020, 01:52 PM.

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  • DEEPNHOCK
    replied
    Bottom line.
    If your drum indexes off the hub, then swaging is not needed.
    If the drum has no shoulder, then all the forces of the drum are transferred to the studs (except for the clamping force of the nuts). Any loss of torque allows drum to hub movement and could feel like an out of round situation.
    Not the correct mounting methodology. Swaging locks the drum to the hub via the serrated portion of the stud.

    Leave a comment:


  • Videoranger
    replied
    I have new drum and will reuse hub that is already separated from old drum. I'll have old studs pressed out of hub and new studs pressed in.

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  • JoeHall
    replied
    Always a good idea to peruse the archives here, as there is not much new under the sun when it comes to Studebakers. If I were working on front hubs, I'd first look for good, serviceable used ones, as they are still thick on the ground thanks to the many folks who converted to front disc brakes. Otherwise, I'd cut the swages and swap drums, same as I did for the rear. But that's just me. https://forum.studebakerdriversclub....-drum-from-hub

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  • Videoranger
    replied
    What I am inquiring about is the correct tool to use on Stude drums/hubs. I've seen a tool used on old fords, but those drums have a beveled recess for the swaged part of the stud metal so the base of the stud is level with the drum face after swagging. Stude wheel studs retain part of the stud bevel above the drum face and have part of the stud bevel swaged down on the drum

    Is a tool made for the studs on Studes available or is this something that needs to be fabricated?

    . Click image for larger version  Name:	sage cut2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	74.7 KB ID:	1869364 Stude swaged stud

    Click image for larger version  Name:	swege tool 2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	5.6 KB ID:	1869356Click image for larger version  Name:	swege tool.JPG Views:	0 Size:	83.5 KB ID:	1869357Ford studs and swage tool
    Last edited by Videoranger; 12-09-2020, 05:33 AM.

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  • StudeRich
    replied
    Yes, you WILL see that clearly, looking at one of your drums.

    The reason is obvious why "Some People" want to leave the Swage's off (and risk an out of round situation) on the Rear Hub and Drum Assemblies, it's the difficulty of Pulling those Hub & Drums from the Tapered Axles!

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  • mw2013
    replied
    Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
    If you pull a Wheel off, you will see that there are three "Squished" small portions of the 5 Studs mashed down over the Drum holding the Drum to the Hub.

    These have to be cut off to disassemble the Hub from the Drum without damage to either to install a New Drum sold without a Hub, (they come either way). Then New Studs can be Installed and "Swagged" onto the Drum with a Swagging Tool.
    Thank you sir, so the deformity is like the stud acting like a rivet, where the stud material is deformed around the hole to join the 2 pieces together?

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  • StudeRich
    replied
    If you pull a Wheel off, you will see that there are three "Squished" small portions of the 5 Studs mashed down over the Drum holding the Drum to the Hub.

    These have to be cut off to disassemble the Hub from the Drum without damage to either to install a New Drum sold without a Hub, (they come either way). Then New Studs can be Installed and "Swagged" onto the Drum with a Swagging Tool.

    Leave a comment:


  • mw2013
    replied
    what is swaging?

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  • StudeRich
    replied
    Yes, but these are FRONT Drums, I don't see ANY advantage to not doing it on Front Drums, only the Disadvantage of the possibility of the whole Tire, Wheel and Drum flying off!

    Front Wheel rotating assemblies are much more sensitive to Off Center and Balance issues than Rears are, with softer suspension, Plus steerable wheels = Vibration.

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