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Do all Dana 44 use the same type ring and pinion?

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  • Rear Axle: Do all Dana 44 use the same type ring and pinion?

    1960 lark v8, with a 3.73, what is the highest gear that is available? I am looking for a 3.07, is it high enough for a modded 289 stude? and is using a used one a bad idea?

  • #2
    I believe that a 3.07:1 is about as high as you will find in that vintage Studebaker. I am assuming an AT. I do not know why you would want an even higher ratio. A used one is fine if it is inspected and shown to be in good shape. If the gears are good, you may want to go with bearings and/or seals depending on the condition and use.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by studegary View Post
      I believe that a 3.07:1 is about as high as you will find in that vintage Studebaker. I am assuming an AT. I do not know why you would want an even higher ratio. A used one is fine if it is inspected and shown to be in good shape. If the gears are good, you may want to go with bearings and/or seals depending on the condition and use.

      thanks , just picked up my first stude and waiting for the transaction to finalize, the stock 259, was replaced with a rebuilt 289, r1 cam, higher compression, so it's got more toruqe

      Comment


      • #4
        Welcome to the SDC and to the SDC Forum Mason!

        With a '60 Lark VIII with a R1/R2 cam and possibly a "warmed up" 289, your biggest concern should not be the Ratio, but are you Sure the Axle IS a Dana Model 44?

        1960 Lark VIII's came from the Factory with a 259 2V or 4V, V8 Engine and a Dana Model 27 Axle.

        The Spider (Side) Gears in a Model 23 or 27 cannot take the Torque of the Standard 2V 289, let alone a warmed up one.

        So back to the Ratio. When the 289's became available in Larks, the '62 to '64 Larks with Direct Drive Transmissions that were not ordered with Optional Axle Ratios, came with the 3.31 Ratio Dana Model 44. They do "Pull" very nicely with that setup.

        On the other hand, if you are not concerned with how quickly you can pull away from a Stop, and you plan to do mostly long drives on Interstates and Highways, you will appreciate the Highest Ratio, a 3.07.

        Probably the Best advice I can give you is: DRIVE THE CAR!
        Then you will be in a better position to decide how you would like to improve it, or NOT.

        Remember, that a Higher Lift Cam with more overlap LOWERS Low Speed/RPM Power so Higher Ratio, may not be what you want.

        If you decide you need a Ring and Pinion change, the 4X4 Shops that work on a lot of Jeeps, and Trucks are quite familiar with what is available and can be done to older Dana Diff's.

        Click image for larger version

Name:	63Custom2drTomato.jpg
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ID:	1861975 This Lark runs Very Well with a Limited Slip Twin Traction Dana 44 and 4.54 Gears!


        Click image for larger version

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        Of course Ted doesn't do Freeways much though!
        Last edited by StudeRich; 10-21-2020, 10:11 PM.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
          Welcome to the SDC and to the SDC Forum Mason!

          With a '60 Lark VIII with a R1/R2 cam and possibly a "warmed up" 289, your biggest concern should not be the Ratio, but are you Sure the Axle IS a Dana Model 44?

          1960 Lark VIII's came from the Factory with a 259 2V or 4V, V8 Engine and a Dana Model 27 Axle.

          The Spider (Side) Gears in a Model 23 or 27 cannot take the Torque of the Standard 2V 289, let alone a warmed up one.

          So back to the Ratio. When the 289's became available in Larks, the '62 to '64 Larks with Direct Drive Transmissions that were not ordered with Optional Axle Ratios, came with the 3.31 Ratio Dana Model 44. They do "Pull" very nicely with that setup.

          On the other hand, if you are not concerned with how quickly you can pull away from a Stop, and you plan to do mostly long drives on Interstates and Highways, you will appreciate the Highest Ratio, a 3.07.

          Probably the Best advice I can give you is: DRIVE THE CAR!
          Then you will be in a better position to decide how you would like to improve it, or NOT.

          Remember, that a Higher Lift Cam with more overlap LOWERS Low Speed/RPM Power so Higher Ratio, may not be what you want.

          If you decide you need a Ring and Pinion change, the 4X4 Shops that work on a lot of Jeeps, and Trucks are quite familiar with what is available and can be done to older Dana Diff's.
          The President of the Rock River Valley Chapter Fran Tremain, ebayed me the car and ,built the car ( restored) front to back.

          The story is the Texas car has a full flow '63 289 , that was smoking and he pulled it and rebuilt it , it now has 1k miles, and the rear end has the flanged axles, he assured me it is a Dana 44

          it's hellofacar and impressed with the fact that he pulled all the stops to freshen this bad boy, I can't begin to tell you what he did, and yes I need to drive it, I am jumping the gun, my check has to clear and then comes the shippers to Los Angeles

          Comment


          • #6
            I am very familiar with the the Los Angeles Area Mason, I bought my First Avanti from Alhambra.
            I was raised in the South Bay area, lived in: Hawthone, Lawndale, Redondo Beach, Gardena and Torrance.
            My Dad was a Salesman at the Studebaker Dealer in Inglewood. It WAS a Great place to be in the 50's, '60's and '70's.

            The Boeing Co. moved me up here in the Pacific Northwest, and I have pretty much "dropped the Anchor" so to speak now.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              you're probably better off with the over the top covid lock-downs , it's been a crappy place to be, but maybe the reason i finally pulled the trigger on choosing a stude, that I've been wanting for 15 years

              Comment


              • #8
                Back to the original question - yes, any Dana 44 ring gear and pinion will fit in any Dana 44 housing. There are two different carriers to which the ring gear bolts. One takes gearsets from 2.56 to 3.73; the other is for gearsets 3.90 to 6.33.

                AFAIK, Studebaker never offered taller than 3.07. Some later cars from other manufacturers came with 2.56 and 2.88 rear gears.

                jack vines
                PackardV8

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
                  Back to the original question - yes, any Dana 44 ring gear and pinion will fit in any Dana 44 housing. There are two different carriers to which the ring gear bolts. One takes gearsets from 2.56 to 3.73; the other is for gearsets 3.90 to 6.33.

                  AFAIK, Studebaker never offered taller than 3.07. Some later cars from other manufacturers came with 2.56 and 2.88 rear gears.

                  jack vines
                  thank you, now that narrows it down, if it has a 3.73 now, then the only place to go is up, however.... everyone keeps saying studebaker, isn't a dana range gearsets specific to dana and not to studebaker? so any and all dana appropriate ring gear for the 44 will plug and play?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    How do you intend to drive the car? What are your expectations?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hallabutt View Post
                      How do you intend to drive the car? What are your expectations?
                      slowly on the freeway without winding out the engine around 70-85 mph max

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mw2013 View Post
                        thank you, now that narrows it down, if it has a 3.73 now, then the only place to go is up, however.... everyone keeps saying studebaker, isn't a dana range gearsets specific to dana and not to studebaker? so any and all dana appropriate ring gear for the 44 will plug and play?
                        I think the answer to that is BOTH, and YES without calling those 4X4 Shops that do that, I THINK the Ring Gear and Pinion Gear for other makes will fit, but you would need a "Studebaker" Carrier or twin Traction Case to mount the Ring Gear, and there would be no reason not to use Studebaker Ratios because the Engines do not have the "Cubes" to pull any non-Studebaker Higher than 3.07 Ratios.

                        That is because each Auto Mfg. ordered the exact ratio that their own In House (Track) Testing found was best for their exact Engine & Trans. combos.

                        So SOME Chev and Ford Trucks, and Jeeps had the exact SAME Ratio as Studebaker but most do not. Other makes had for instance: 4.11 Ratio, Studebakers have 4.09.
                        But the big difference is in the "Studebaker" Axle Design and End Play adjustment, also the exclusive Studebaker Twin Traction Limited Slip Dana's, since Studebaker Packard had that FIRST, it was designed for Packard in '56 and then Stude. unlike any other.

                        Also about the Axle Ratio change, your Axle HOUSING will work for whatever Ratio you want, but it is the "Carrier" (Main Case or Limited Ship Unit) that has Ring Gear Size/Ratio Limits.
                        Last edited by StudeRich; 10-22-2020, 05:25 PM.
                        StudeRich
                        Second Generation Stude Driver,
                        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by StudeRich View Post

                          I think the answer to that is BOTH, and YES without calling those 4X4 Shops that do that, I THINK the Ring Gear and Pinion Gear for other makes will fit, but you would need a "Studebaker" Carrier or twin Traction Case to mount the Ring Gear, and there would be no reason not to use Studebaker Ratios because the Engines do not have the "Cubes" to pull any non-Studebaker Higher than 3.07 Ratios.

                          That is because each Auto Mfg. ordered the exact ratio that their own In House (Track) Testing found was best for their exact Engine & Trans. combos.

                          So SOME Chev and Ford Trucks, and Jeeps had the exact SAME Ratio as Studebaker but most do not. Other makes had for instance: 4.11 Ratio, Studebakers have 4.09.
                          But the big difference is in the "Studebaker" Axle Design and End Play adjustment, also the exclusive Studebaker Twin Traction Limited Slip Dana's, since Studebaker Packard had that FIRST, it was designed for Packard in '56 and then Stude. unlike any other.

                          Also about the Axle Ratio change, your Axle HOUSING will work for whatever Ratio you want, but it is the "Carrier" (Main Case or Limited Ship Unit) that has Ring Gear Size/Ratio Limits.
                          thanks


                          after some research and calculations, I am stuck with the f-o-m trans that starts in 2nd, with no lock up, over drive, or 1st gear starts, , to me the most ideal ratio ( studebaker spec'd) ring and pinion set would be the 3.31, as a compromise considering, financial, downtime, frequency of use, i'll sacrifice some upper end speed to gain some, down low performance, without the ridiculous 3.73, that i know i don't even need to drive to know it's too low

                          in compalrison to corvette, which i have had in the past and know 82- 89 has similar HP and torque curves, they average at a glance mid 3's in ratios a=with some rare high 2's, 3.07 being very common in the late c3 vettes and early c4's

                          my case is difference in that i don't have a 3.06 first gear, my first is practically 1.47 , but reading that the auto trans with the torque converter multiplies torque over a stick shift on take offs, perhaps the 3.07 can be over come, maybe with a higher stall speed, but now we're getting into lots of work and labor and cost and who needs it slipping on the highway?

                          question do i have it right that the f-o-m 's ratio is 2.4, 1.47 and 1.1?

                          i call 2 shops they want 750-900 to do the job...are you kidding me?




                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I agree with your mentality, a Stude with V8 and automatic with a 3.73 rear end is a lousy road car. At 60 MPH you’re begging for another gear. I just purchased a 64 wagon with that setup. After the first drive, the first thing I did was snatch a 3.31 rear out of a parts car to swap in.

                            A 3.07 would be a slug off the line with the 2nd gear start.

                            Paying the average shop rate, $750 to $900 to swap gears and carriers is probably about right. It ain’t a cheap hobby, even moreso if you have to pay a shop to do the work.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No they are not kidding you. Not sure what was included but I paid $500 about 20 yrs ago to have the local speed expert swap my 44 from a high ratio to a 4:10 posi and I bought the parts. Jim got me a good deal on the parts however. He did an excellent job.

                              I didn't want to spend that kind of coin on the 74 Avanti 44 that went from 2:70?? to 3:55, with posi added. I just used the Spicer/Dana instructions for the internet and set it up myself with the axle on jack stands. It seems to be working great.

                              Point I'm making is for your situation, if you are kinda handy and can make the proper tools and buy a gauge and stand to measure back lash you could try doing it yourself. You'll also need inch pound and high ft/# torque wrench.

                              If you decide to do it, I'll post a couple more hints that will help. It's fiddly and takes time but you'll then appreciate the cost.

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