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New Owner 1962 Hawk GT Brake Service Questions

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  • Brakes: New Owner 1962 Hawk GT Brake Service Questions

    Hi, Recently acquired a nice 62 Hawk 289 and have been going over things to make sure all is in good working order. Working on brakes and discovered the incredible experience of using an OTC hub puller and a sledge hammer to remove rear hubs and drums. Glad I bought a well made puller as the torque put on the center screw with the sledge was incredible. Rear drums look very good and mic at about .013 over 10", so will leave as is. All the wheel cylinders and master cylinder will be replaced and all brake linings replaced by local shop in business for many decades. The flex lines replaced with stainless braid covered lines. One front drum has a 1/4" wide groove in the center that looks to be machined there. Very strange and that drum needs to go to scrap yard. Other front drum is .016 over and no grooves or waves. If I replace just one front drum with NOS one (only one available) I would need to R and R one hub from junk drum to NOS drum and have NOS and old drums both machined .02 - .04 over depending on condition of old serviceable drum. They would need to match specs to each other to brake properly. The other option is to spend $400 on two new reprod drums and swap both hubs. Still need to locate machinist to do the lugs. Are the new 11" finned drums going for $400 a pair any good? Do the lugs need to be or can they be swedged to those drums? Do any of you folks think going with NOS and old drums machined to match be a better alternative? NOS drum is $150 and drum turning $20 each for total of $190 or about half as much. Also is using a $10 5/8" hole saw a reasonable alternative to using a $95 Goodman cutter for cutting lug swedges off? Anyone have any experience with any of the 9 piece aluminum bearing R and R tool sets for use on front wheel bearings Timken Set2 and Set6 used on the 62 Hawk front hubs? I haven't joined the Studebakersdriversclub yet, but plan to. Thanks for any insights or advice. BTW I live in the Omaha, Ne area.
    Last edited by Videoranger; 10-12-2020, 07:25 PM.

  • #2
    Any feedback on the reproduced all cast iron 11" finned front drums that are available from Studebaker parts vendors?

    Comment


    • #3
      Go to parts wanted/for sale department and see if some one has drums. ( I assumed you meant Owatonna Tool Company when you wrote OTC. Mine is my favorite tool-never fails) I'm sure you can find drums . I have several and am not a dealer. They get ruined when owners let shoes get down to the rivets or even the metal shoe itself- it gouges and ruins the drum. Unfortunately not uncommon. Just cut drums off a Corvair 'cause some doofus put oversize shoes (made for a turned down drum) on standard drums. Adjuster turned in all the way and brake was locked up tight. How the heck did they get them on???) New drums for Corvair - $22. ( . Not sure I can afford Studebaker restos any more!)

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      • #4
        I think if all your one Front Drum measures is .004 Over 11 Inches?, you have a Long way to go to reach the Max at .060 Over 11 Inches, don't sweat the Minor details!

        If a New 11 Inch Finned Hub and Drum Assembly 1562457 is purchased, the difference will be Minor and you COULD do a cleanup Cut on the new one to make sure it is Round & get them closer, but they DO NOT need to be perfectly matched, Yes Close within .020 to .030 would be good, but a PERFECT match is not required, you adjust the running clearance for that.

        By the way, that IS a really Beautiful '62 GT, it could be a serious Car Show Contender at our Local Meets, Zone Meets and International Meets if the Interior is as good as the Exterior!

        A tip for you if you want it more Original, when it was Repainted they painted the Bottom of the Hood behind the grille, Body Color, it WAS Flat Black to make it not show so much.

        Just a Detail for the Purists, not for everyone, but Very easy to fix if it bothers you as much as it does me.
        Last edited by StudeRich; 10-13-2020, 12:48 PM.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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        • #5
          Thanks for the compliments on the Hawk; it's a very solid car and fun to drive. Previous owners spent way more than I paid for the car for engine overhaul, interior replacement, transmission work, body and paint, chrome etc. I basically paid less than half price for the work and the car was thrown in for free. Wish they would have gotten to the brakes LOL. This is the Studebaker drum I'm looking at:
          Brake Drum, 11",finned, NOS, front, drum only n/a BR 700399 C1 N $150.00 $195.00 1 11" inside dia, 4-1/2" off set
          Not sure if it is same as original for my application, so I've inquired for more details. If it's a match to my still serviceable drum thinking that would be a good replacement for the one with the strange 1/4" deep groove. I'll replace wheel bearings and races and seal on both hubs too. Does anyone know if a bearing tool set like this will work on the Timken set2 and set6 front wheel bearings?
          : https://www.amazon.com/948004-Bearin...80617043&psc=1
          Should the new drum be swaged to the hub as original? I'll need to find an old time brake guy to do that. I have a 5/8 bimetal hole saw on the way to cut swages off of old lugs to get the hub off. What kind of lugs should I get for replacements? After brakes I'm going to have mufflers replaced as one has a small rust hole from condensation. I'm looking for ones that have a nice deep tone, not too loud, not raspy or ones that drone when cruising. Something that compliments the sweet sounds of the Studebaker 289. Thanks for the replies as I like to do my homework before I screw something up. I was thinking of retiring from work, then I bought another old car...........

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          • #6
            The Front Wheel Bearings don't require anything but greasy fingers to install. but of course the Races, (called "Cups") do need to be driven out, a Large Drift Punch works for me, and I ground the O.D. of an Old pair of Races so as; not to wedge them into the Hub when driving new Races in.

            If you do not have a Proper sized 1/2 Inch Drive Socket or other round Tool, that Bearing/Bushing Driving Set would come in handy for driving the Rear, Inner Axle Seals into the Diff. and for Trans, and Diff. Pinion Seals.

            Yes, you will need to Swage the Studs onto the Drum to secure the Hub.
            Studs are available at Studebaker Vendors.

            One of our "Turning Wheels" advertisers; Silvertone Exhaust in Canada makes Exhaust systems and has I believe, THREE different tones of Stock type Mufflers. All of his Parts are Stainless Steel, so not the cheapest.

            ON THE OTHER HAND, the 1562457 Hub & Drum Assy. I mentioned is Only $50.00 USD More, and you are DONE! You get a Drum, Hub, 5 Studs, 2 Bearing Cups, in ONE piece.

            https://studebakervendors.com

            FYI: K & G Studebaker's 700399 is a Very Old Newman & Altman/Standard Surplus Part Number. They were in Original Studebaker Corp. Buildings in South Bend, IN.

            Back in the 1970's/1980's, whenever they created a Part from other Parts or had it Reproduced, instead of using the Studebaker Part Number which they used for Original NOS Parts, they Created their own 700XXX Number.

            There should be nothing Wrong with that, just Old USA Reproduction Stock, IF that is what it is.
            Last edited by StudeRich; 10-14-2020, 09:15 PM.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              Graham with K&G in Canada is sending an NOS front hub that is an exact match to my other good front hub, so that is a good find. Best to mate front drums to each other for best function. Noticed the new hubs are different construction being all cast one piece with machined mating surfaces. The original ones appear to be composite construction with steel faces cast into the iron drums. Also wonder about metallurgical quality of the Chinese castings. Now that I have the rear brakes disassembled it's probably a good idea to clean and paint backing plates and pull the rear axles and service or replace the bearings and seals. Things look rather crusty in there. Any how-to directions to service rear bearings greatly appreciated as that's a new procedure for me. We had our first light snow overnight, so the unheated shop is getting a bit chilly. That's a bit of a motivator to keep things moving right along.
              Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9614.JPG Views:	0 Size:	50.7 KB ID:	1861452 Click image for larger version  Name:	DSCN1694.JPG Views:	0 Size:	105.1 KB ID:	1861456
              Last edited by Videoranger; 10-18-2020, 10:18 AM.

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              • #8
                If you do indeed have an old time brake shop, then they will have an arc grinder. Have all your shoes arc ground to fit the drums. Even if your car doesn't have power assist brakes, it'll feel as if it does.
                Jerry Forrester
                Forrester's Chrome
                Douglasville, Georgia

                See all of Buttercup's pictures at https://imgur.com/a/tBjGzTk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes, brake relining shop wants drums brought in to arc new linings. I can have linings bonded, riveted or both. Not sure what is best. Since I don't expect to ever get the brake linings real hot, I'm thinking bonding. Not sure what the lining material options are yet. BTW, the rear axle is the twin traction type. Looks like I can use brake drum as a slide hammer to pull axle shafts and need to keep track of thrust blocks. Trying to have the whole process in mind before starting so I can proceed properly and not screw anything up.
                  Last edited by Videoranger; 10-18-2020, 12:03 PM.

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                  • #10
                    I would go with riveted. The bonding seems to let loose over time and then the shoe jams in the drum.

                    Of course, if you drive all the time and do not let your cars sit for years at a time (like some knucklehead that shall remain nameless - in other words, me) you might be OK.
                    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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                    • #11
                      OK, so Why is that Finned 11 Inch Front Drum WITHOUT a Hub Swagged onto it?

                      Is that your Spare, NOS, never installed Drum "Only" without a Hub?
                      Why show it with the REAR 10 Inch Brake Assy.?

                      I get that you are not finished because the Upper, Center Spring "Keeper" and Both Return Springs are not on.
                      But, that Anti-rattle Spring on the Forward end of the Parking Brake Bar is backwards, it goes INTO the Shoe!
                      Last edited by StudeRich; 10-18-2020, 01:55 PM.
                      StudeRich
                      Second Generation Stude Driver,
                      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The drum picture is the NOS replacement drum that's coming from K&G. I'll reuse the hub from my grooved front drum. Still need to cut off the swedges and press out the studs and then put in new studs. The rear brake picture is just a snap shot during disassembly. Just put that one up since posts without any pictures can be kinda boring sometimes. So the anti rattle spring on the ebrake bar was upside down on the front shoe? It did seem strange the long end of the spring was just hanging out there. Both sides were like that. Both rear brake cylinders were full of oily black gunk behind the rubber seals from leaky pistons too. Lot's of nice work done on this Hawk, but some things were neglected. Very good brakes are one of my personal favorites to have on an old car. Hunting down parts and figuring out how to make things work right is the hobby part of owning one.

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                        • #13
                          **********
                          Last edited by Topper2011; 10-20-2020, 01:54 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Topper's Brake is also a Left Side, with the Anti rattle Spring Right side up and at the Rear, but I can't see if the Wedge at the Top has the beveled side Forward as it should be, it MAY be backwards.

                            But the Starwheel looks like the Fine Toothed one for Auto Adjusting Brakes from a '63-'66, and may not work well with the Manual Adjusted '54 to '62 Setup.

                            The Parking Brake Cable Retainer and Screws are missing, maybe not installed yet.
                            Last edited by StudeRich; 10-18-2020, 05:39 PM.
                            StudeRich
                            Second Generation Stude Driver,
                            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                              Topper's Brake is also a Left Side, with the Anti rattle Spring Right side up and at the Rear, but I can't see if the Wedge at the Top has the beveled side Forward as it should be, it MAY be backwards.

                              But the Starwheel looks like the Fine Toothed one for Auto Adjusting Brakes from a '63-'66, and may not work well with the Manual Adjusted '54 to '62 Setup.

                              The Parking Brake Cable Retainer and Screws are missing, maybe not installed yet.
                              Oops, your right. I thought I had deleted this posting and sent a pm to the OP explaining where I went wrong. Yes, driver's side. Screw was stripped, so the cable stay wasn't installed at the time and the anchor plate is going the wrong direction until Radio Roy pointed it out way back when. On reflection, I think I have the anti-rattle clip in the wrong place. I think it should be on the front shoe after rechecking the manual. Hopefully I did change it around when I changed the anchor direction.
                              Last edited by Topper2011; 10-18-2020, 06:29 PM.

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