Water pumps (pics)

[r1lark]

quote:Originally posted by Chucks Stude

The car origionally came with a fixed 4-blade fan, and this spacer. The car is an airconditioned GT. That fan made a lot of noise.When I went to the viscous drive,and 6 blade fan, the fan did not stick past the edge of the fan shroud without the use of the spacer. This caused the engine to run hotter than it had. Putting the spacer back in, took care of that problem, and driving the car in 100 degree heat, stop and go, did not overheat the car. It never went over 185 degrees. When the water pump failed, it was not the bearing that failed, it was the housing. Now, I have only found numbers for two water pumps, standard 1558224,and the Avanti unit. Am I missing something? The studs are too long, and that will be taken care of. Had to use studs, because the orig. Studebaker viscous drive had holes in it not slots. Bolts would not work because they would not go around the housing of the viscous drive.

Chuck,

I checked the parts book to verify what I was remembering.

'63 & '64 V8 Larks used fan spacer 1539063 which is 1" thick; this spacer was [u]not</u> used with viscous fan drive equipment, per the parts book.

'63 & '64 K body (ie, GT Hawks) cars used fan spacer 1539063 also; but again, [u]not</u> used with viscous fan equipment per the parts book.

Are you sure that you have the correct fan shroud for your GT, and that it has not been cut down (shortened)? I do know that on my '64 GT with viscous fan, the blades only protrude partway into the shroud, but cools ok.

Paul
Winston-Salem, NC
Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

[Chucks Stude]

Well, I will have to go to my parts DVD and look all of this up. Maybe I'll just take the spacer out, and call it a day. Paul, I see what you mean. The shroud is OK.

[satdoc2]

The difference in the length of the housings puts the bearing further out on the shaft. This takes some pressure off the bearing because the shaft is shorter in front of it.
Allen

[jimmijim8]

I used an Avanti pump on my GT only because it was heavy duty and the price was right. Otherwise I would have used a heavy duty Stude pump. Like my post says, I had to make up about a 3/16" spacer to fit between the clutch flange and the pulley. jimmijim

[Eddie]

Edd-ited for brevity (bad pun, sorry)

quote:Originally posted by Chucks Stude
I do know that on my '64 GT with viscous fan, the blades only protrude partway into the shroud, but cools ok.

Paul
Winston-Salem, NC

I got really into ideal fan positioning a couple years ago on a custom I-6 installation I did on another manufacturer's pickup (Dodge-Cummins into '91 Ford F-150); the engine swap required a custom made shroud, a 2-core alum rad (the stocker!), an air/water intercooler-heat-exhanger core (well, OK, an Acura radiator), an A/C condenser core, and air/oil radiators for the PS pump and engine oil, so packaging was (ummm) somewhat tightish.

Ideally, fan/rad/shroud spacing is 1" clearance, blades to core;
1", blade tips to shoud opening's clearance;
blade tips positioned 1/2-length into shroud, 1/2 length out.

You're obviously where the car likes it, soooo...

Good thread!

Eddie

"No matter where you are...there you are!"
Dr. Buckaroo Bonzai

[Chucks Stude]

Even with the spacer, I am still about a foot away from the core on a GT. The fan is close to 1/2 in, 1/2 out of the shroud.An electric suction fan is looking better all of the time, as a pusher on the outside of the A/C condenser would not work, because there is about two inches between the condenser, and the radiator. Even taking the spacer out of the equation, still leaves a problem, in that there is still about a 1/16" space between the pulleys, and the viscous drive. It almost seems that this was all designed for three pulleys instead of two. Will still have to mfg. a spacer of some sort. Will start on that after grandchildren leave. Blessed holiday to everyone.

[r1lark]

quote:Originally posted by Chucks Stude

Even taking the spacer out of the equation, still leaves a problem, in that there is still about a 1/16" space between the pulleys, and the viscous drive. It almost seems that this was all designed for three pulleys instead of two.

Chuck,

You have a gap because the R2 Avanti water pump has a longer 'register' on the end. This pump was not used on Lark/Hawk cars with viscous fan equipment. The Avanti R2 pulley on the water pump was (correct me if I'm wrong you Avanti experts, I've never had an Avanti) a cast aluminum pulley, and much thicker than the pressed sheet metal type. Thus the register on the end had to be thicker on this application to allow it to protrude through the pulley and into the viscous fan hub. So yes, you will have to make some type of thin spacer to overcome this.

Paul
Winston-Salem, NC
Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

[Chucks Stude]

Thank you, will do.

[64Avanti]

R1 & R2 pulleys are cast iron. R3 pulleys are aluminum.

David L

[Chucks Stude]

Cast iron, or stamped steel?

[N8N]

Avanti pulleys are cast iron. Other cars got stamped steel. Yes, the Avanti pulleys are really heavy.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[Jolly-John]

I have used the "replacement" cast [u]alluminum </u> water pump pulley on my Avanti. It is sold by some of the Stude vendors. Compared to the stock steel Avanti pulley, it really cuts down on weight the water pump bearing and nose has to carry. I am very happy with this alluminum pulley....gives me lots of peace of mind! John in Wisconsin

[64Avanti]

The use of the aluminum water pump pulley does save some weight but the real load on the water pump for the R2 Avanti is the belt tension for the blower belts. The weight is insignificant.

David L

[jimmijim8]

Sorry if my posting was way to complex to be understood. It was only meant to describe how an Avanti car,{not Gt Hawk or Lark Avanti powered}water pump could be easily adapted to fit a fan clutch equipped Hawk or Lark. Question????????? Is the photo of the standard duty water pump showing a cracked casting? By the way. The fan in a GT Hawk only just goes a short ways inside the shroud, at least far enough to keep one from having their fingers removed. It doesn't even get close to the radiator . Chuck. If yer overheatin'. There is something else wrong. jimmijim

[Chucks Stude]

Jim, it is the housing that cracked. The bearings and seal are all fine. I am just trying to get it close to the shroud. As far as overheating, when I got the car the temp gauge did not work. After replacing the gauge, I found that it was showing 240 degrees. I had a stroke. Went a got an infared thermometer. It was running at 240. Went to a radiator shop, and found only one tube on the radiator open. Fixed it, and brought it down to around 185 to 195. This is all in Texas summers. I do not mind those temps, but I want to make sure that I have them under control, as I do intend to rebuild this engine, as I know that running at 240 did not do it any good. It runs and sounds good, but leaks oil like a pig (drove it 250 miles, used 13 gallons of gas, and 1 gallon of 15/40).




This is a pic of the engine as I recieved it. 4 bladed fan, with spacer. Very noisy. This is the placement of the fan that I was looking for, with the fan clutch. As you can see, with the fan clutch, and no spacer, the fan does not extend into the shroud at all.



This is a pic of the engine with fan clutch, but no spacer. As you can see, the fan is sitting back from the fan shroud.