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Can't get new engine w/ rebuilt starter to turn over

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  • #16
    When the starter motor tries to spin that gap at the drive end will go away. it may jam against the ring gear and lock up the starter. look hard at face of bendix "Bell" for signs of rubbing. most, not all, starters have a small thrust washer ring between nose cone and bendix. a wrongly placed ring gear has happened to. thats a long story! luck Doofus

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    • #17
      Dielectric grease does not promote conductivity. It can protect a connection but will not conduct electricity.

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      • #18
        You can retract the bendix by holding the starter to the wire wheel on a bench grinder. If it doesn't retract turn starter around to turn in opposite direction.
        Hold starter firmly and be careful.

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        • #19
          Tomorrow (assuming I finally get a Friday off here), will remove the starter, clean that dielectric grease off everything (here I thought I was doing a GOOD thing; story of my restoration :-) ), and double check the bendix. Don't have another starter; first "new" Stude (vs 1928), NO spare parts except those I've swapped for NOS. Also, 90% sure no washer on the END of it, I recall fiber washers INTERNAL that I kept careful track of. Putting Prussion Blue on the whole thing is a great idea; i had wondered about the mesh and how far in it went, since no means for shimming it. THanks all. Will report back.

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          • #20
            B, if you get a chance find your starter tag number, i may have an example to look at here. Luck Doofus

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            • #21
              What is the torque required to turn the engine without the starter installed?
              RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

              17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
              10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
              10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
              4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
              5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
              56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
              60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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              • #22
                As Gord says--But--- It is not a bit uncommon to have the starter drive extended and engaged with the ring gear and the motor will not turn over. Without that initial spin up, it cannot generate the torque required to turn over the engine. I haven't tried it but this should work; using the wire brush on your bench grinder spin up the starter and the drive will kick back into the retracted position. Several years ago I had to replace the torque convertor on a 53. I was lucky to find one and was assured hat it was 100% correct. The motor would not turn over and eventually I found that the ring gear was indeed NOT correct . Had to find another starter compatible with the ring gear. Try spinning the starter and re-installing it. Good Luck!

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                • #23
                  HURRAY! All is well.
                  Friday I took the starter out, and spun it over again with the 'old/dead' battery and charger. Noticed it took several seconds to "spin up to full speed". THAT didn't seem right, so really began thinking "just not enough battery power".....

                  1) yep, bottom-line, I think the primary"fix" was taking my Toyota Highlander in today and getting a new battery for it and KEEPING the old one (still holds >12V). Just was not getting enough juice to the starter with the REALLY old one (only held 9V unless charger was on it). So sweet to see that engine turn (without a wrench) for the first time since it came out of the car 11 years ago!

                  But, did follow through on
                  1) removed all the dielectric grease on starter, plate and bell-housing to improve ground
                  2) disassembled the whole starter and double-checked the Bendix spiral; only light machine oil AND 100% identical dimensionally to the original Bendix.
                  3) applied some Prussion Blue on the Bendix gear, and turned the engine over by hand as it ratcheted. Nice clean marks about ~1/8" in from tip of gear; definitely meshing and "in the sweet spot".

                  4) remounted, connected the "good/old" battery directly with cables (wow, amazing how much voltage I lost with JUMPER cables, heavy-duty ones at that). and spun it over nicely! Even re-connected the supercharger belt, and undiminished performance (RPM). Got oil coming out of the pressure-gage tube, caught THAT just in time before it made a real mess. (Found my FIRST leak even; one fitting in that series from engine to the pressure gage). First of many fluid leaks to come I assume.

                  Speaking of that, I went in and got my Oil Pressure Gage, (all gages restored by Brent Hagan) and connected it. Spun the engine over several times more (short bursts to avoid burning out the starter of course). Never did move the needle on my oil pressure gage. I had oil-pump packed with petroleum jelly as recommended, and DID get oil coming out of the tiny pressure-gage tube so purged the air from that. How much additional rotations should it take to build some oil pressure, or WON'T you with just the starter? I recall the recommendation at startup to build pressure with a cut off distributor shaft and a drill, but obviously much higher RPMs that way, so assuming that is it (low rpm via starter). BUT, thought I'd ask.

                  Thanks again everyone!! If I ever get this done and to a Intl Stude Meet, I'll need to make up a little poster with the names of the dozen or more of you who have kept me going on this for the last decade plus :-)

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                  • #24
                    Sounds like good news! You should be able to get an oil pressure indication with the starter. However oil leaks mean you must have SOME pressure. I would connect a known good pressure gauge, your work is too valuable to trust to a 60 year old gauge that you don't know for sure works. You could also test the pressure gauge. You can use air for that, just be careful not to blast 150PSI into it.
                    _______________
                    http://stude.vonadatech.com
                    https://jeepster.vonadatech.com

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                    • #25
                      Good call on the pressure gauge. I had all my gauges restored, talked to him and he said 'no way to calibrate pressure gage anymore' (for him, not in shop anymore) so just put on a new bezel and cleaned up, as the pressure gages "hardly ever go bad". Well, applied 40psi of air to it, barely moved AND STAYED; 80 psi moved the needle to maybe 15psi (and stayed there). Brent is sending me a new pressure gauge. :-) THanks again, never would have though to check with air, and been freaking out over 'why no oil pressue?!" :-)

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                      • #26
                        Update: Brent Hagan sent me a new Oil Pressure gauge, hooked it up, spun the starter over and within seconds had 40psi. :-)
                        Thanks again for the tip on checking w/ air-pressure; was SURE the gauge was 'rebuilt', not just a new bezel and lense... so would have been chasing down a rabbit-trail of 'why no oil pressure?!!!". Phew!

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