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Driveline grating noise

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  • Other: Driveline grating noise

    Hoping someone can help me figure a mysterious noise coming from the rear of the truck at highway speed.
    ’62 Champ short bed, 289, three on the tree with overdrive, 4.09 rear.
    Purchased truck about ten days ago. First time out on the highway a grating noise coming from the back. Noise showed up at 55-60 mph. It would go away if let up on the gas or if step on the gas. Pushed the clutch in, but that did not make the noise go away.
    Not a constant noise. It would come and go both in regular drive and overdrive. It reminded me of metal on metal, but not high pitched.

    Other than the noise, the truck drove, shifted, braked and handled beautifully.
    Checked underneath and could find no rubbing or anything loose. U joints, Slip yoke o.k. Clutch pedal travel good.
    T-85 low on oil, drained and refilled (overdrive first) with 75/90.

    Went back out and drove several miles further when the noise returned. It occurred to me all was good when starting out. The grating has to coming from friction so something has to be getting hot. Got back under the truck thinking a rear axle bearing was going out. My hand brushed the backing plate and it was hotter than Hades. The other rear Backing plate was also very hot as were the two front backing plates. (Drums all the way around on this truck).
    Braking was minimal getting to the highway and no braking on the highway.
    This truck has a hydrovac Booster and I understand it is suppose to keep some fluid pressure on the wheel cylinders. Could the hydrovac be acting up since it is all four plates that are getting hot?

    Sorry for the long post. Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.

  • #2
    Have you tried pulling the brake pedal away from the floor, to insure that it is returning all the way? As for the master cylinder, is it still the original-type single chamber unit? Or has it been replaced with a dual master cylinder?
    sigpic
    In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

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    • #3
      Their is a bleeder screw on the booster, crack it and see if their is pressure being held in system. also check for proper brake pedal free travel. how do the brakes sound when braking? might want to pull some drums and take a look.Luck Doofus

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      • #4
        "Grating noise" is usually a bad bearing and you going to want to fix it. Brakes can make noise but usually only when applied. Jack it up on non-chinese jach stands --BE CAREFUL----Run it in gear and listen. Good alternative ; take it to garage put it on lift run it and listen with stethascope. I'm going to guess it is the outside axle bearing--they need periodic packing and no one ever did it. Let us know what you find.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Studejohnn View Post
          T-85 low on oil, drained and refilled (overdrive first) with 75/90.
          Got back under the truck thinking a rear axle bearing was going out. My hand brushed the backing plate and it was hotter than Hades. The other rear Backing plate was also very hot as were the two front backing plates.
          This truck has a hydrovac Booster and I understand it is suppose to keep some fluid pressure on the wheel cylinders. Could the hydrovac be acting up since it is all four plates that are getting hot?
          Not related to your problem but hopefully you refilled trans. with the proper GL-1 straight mineral oil and not any with EP additives.
          When brakes are not applied there should not be any pressure on wheel cylinders. If there were then brake shoes would be in constant contact with drums.
          You say all 4 backing plates are hot. How about drums?

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          • #6
            As others have said it MAY not be the brakes but, with all that Heat buildup I think it COULD be.

            We all know what the Most common problem with Older, maybe long stored or not maintained Brakes usually is: Stuck Wheel Cylinders from all the Rust buildup from the moisture absorbing DOT 3 Alcohol based Fluid.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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            • #7
              Ineresting ideas.

              Brake pedal (through floor type) has about an inch of free travel and fully returns. M/C is single chamber and output plumbed back to the hydrovac.

              Braking is real good. Pedal feels good, no noise a low speed, nothing to suggest the shoes are tight to the drums(when not braking) Truck does pull to the right. PO mentioned this and tried shoe adjustment, turning drums, wheel cylinders. Nothing solved it and he said he basically gave up.

              I agree that noise could be an axle bearing but that wouldn’t get the front backing plates hot to the touch.

              Doofus/Jeffery: didn’t crack the booster bleeder screw yet. With the brake pedal at rest, Should the fluid there be under pressure or not under presurre?

              Been raining here, so haven’t had a chance to take it back out. I’m going to crank some grease in both rear axle bearings. If noise still there I’ll pop the wheels and see if the drums and backing plates are still getting hot. If noise goes away, I’ll know where the problem is.

              thanks to all

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              • #8
                I think Doofus is saying that there should be NO Fluid pressure there with everything at rest, that would be a problem if there IS.
                StudeRich
                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                • #9
                  Thank's StudeRich, thats correct. but hot backing plates should also have hot drums! just hot backing plates would indicate a bearing problem first. dry bearings and bearings spinning on the spindle are suspect. LotsaLuck Doofus

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                  • #10
                    Went to take the truck back out today. Instead backed the truck up a small incline a my house, took me foot off the brake and the truck sat there. After about 30 secs, the truck started to creep down the incline. Backed up again and shut the engine off. Waited a few seconds and could hear the shoes rub the drums as it started to roll down the incline.
                    Skipping the drive on the highway seemed like the prudent thing to do, so I drove around local roads for a few minutes, never above 20-25 mph. After this both rear drums/plates were warm. Left front seemed normal. Passenger front, the side that pulls, both drum and backing plate were really hot.
                    Greased both axle bearings. Pulled the fittings first. Grease there so not likely bearings had run dry.
                    Also, cracked the bleeder screw above the output on the hydrovac(brake pedal at rest). Nothing under pressure. In fact, no fluid came out.
                    PO mentioned he had “added” the hydrovac. Next step is to find out the donor vehicle for the hydrovac. But, beginning to think there are multiple brake problems, starting with the passenger front wheel and possibly the wrong hydrovac was installed on this truck.

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                    • #11
                      Sounds like a major brake job coming up! wimpy return springs will cause odd problems while you are in their. Luck Doofus

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                      • #12
                        So.....I had very similar problems this past summer with your same symptoms. To determine pressure in the lines, when hot and stuck, I released the rear bleeder to find hi pressure. I installed a NOSR M/C from NAPA sitting on the shelf and problems persisted. I was left with 5 year old rubber lines, or a 2nd M/C. I decided to replace with new M/C, rubber lines, and chased all the steel lines too. cleaned ad rebuilt all cylinders and even found original NOS brake linings with adjuster hole (2R6). Truck stops perfectly now...

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                        • #13
                          Good to hear, Jack.
                          Will take a good look at the return springs. I’ll pull the front wheels today. I like to wrap a ratchet strap around the shoes, leaving a little slack. Start the truck and have the wife apply the brake pedal. Should be able to see what’s going on up front.
                          Rears will be another day. I think Studebaker was still using tapered axles and hubs on the half tons. Removing the rear drums. Been on that merry-go-round and don’t want to get back on.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Studejohnn View Post
                            PO mentioned he had “added” the hydrovac.
                            I think this is the crux of the problem. I've owned many, many Studes over the past 50+ years and almost all of the issues they had when I purchased them were caused by "improvements" made by the PO. Also, except for those with disc brakes I can't imagine any Studebaker that really needs power brakes. I have a 1962 Champ which I actually use as a truck. Use it to tow boat to lake and once even hauled so many paving blocks that front wheels were barely on ground and I could hardly steer it (not recommended). It always stops just fine. Unless you plan on towing the Queen Mary I'd get rid of Hydrovac (sell it on eBay), perform a thorough brake job, and enjoy your Champ.
                            Also, with the proper puller, removing the rear drums is not that big a deal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Quick update.
                              Front drums off. Found:
                              passenger front has a bad wobble(toward engine and back out. About 75 thousandths out. 32 thousandths out of round. Outer wheel bearing wouldn’t slide off. It has a hump in the cage holding the rollers like someone squeezed it in a vice. Getting drum checked out at shop.

                              Theres more. With pedal, shoes move out. No pedal, shoes stay out. No retract. Return springs look different than driver’s side. Also, the wheel cylinder push rods are cocked upward. Pic in shop manual shows them straight.

                              Drivers side better, but the primary/lead shoe doesn’t move.

                              And I haven’t gotten to the rears yet.

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