running rich

[tootie]

I will say that I am with Jeffrey Cassel on this . OVERTHINK is one of my self induced problems over the years , and I have trained myself to not go there anymore . And on a personal note , after installing and repairing the glorious Holley Sniper fuel injection here in Florida on small block Chevys , big block vintage Mopars , Ford Mustangs and Chevy Camaros , and Jeeps , I will tell you without a doubt that 3000.00 is the biggest waste of money you can make . Every Holley fuel injection conversion should come stock with a AAA membership so you will be able to get your car back home . I have seen some of the finest mechanics here in Tampa get there ass handed to them by brand new out of the box Holley fuel injection.And if you do not mind dealing with the Holley Tech Assistance , which is some of the absolute worst customer service I have ever experienced, you go right ahead . I am a dedicated points and condenser and carburetor guy and I fear no distributor and no carburetor out there . If you gave me a Holley Sniper for my Javelin , my Camaro , my Studebaker or pup truck I would have no problem throwing it in the trash . My cars run just fine as they were made 40-50-60 years ago . Good luck on all and please drive your cars !!

[tootie]

Overthink I think also , go back to basics and look and find what was missed .

[Ron Dame]

Ron, if I weren't already a year behind taking on any new projects, this would be an ideal test bed for something I've always wanted to try on an engine just like yours:



an individual runner intake manifold mounting three of the smaller SU carburetors. This could work because IR manifolds don't allow the cam overlap to pollute other cylinders and thus can tame a longer cam duration.

jack vines

I had visions of such a set-up at one time, but not the fabrication skills. And while an SU is easy to tune, their needle numbers make no sense at all. I would not know where to start.

[Ron Dame]

Overthink I think also , go back to basics and look and find what was missed .

I too am an over-thinker. I just wonder if I'd be happier overall with a milder or stock cam.
I borrowed a good quality vacuum gauge ( instead of my40+ year old unknown gauge) and there is definite needle shake at idle which I did not see with my old cheapy. Best as I recall, this is due to a long duration cam.

[PackardV8]

Overthink I think also , go back to basics and look and find what was missed .

Agree completely, when it's a stock engine. This is a custom build with longer stroke, higher compression, much longer cam timing, different carburetor. The baseline is not as clear with that mix of parts.

jack vines

[jclary]

Knowledge wise, I feel I'm the least qualified to comment in this conversation. Much of the data quoted, and acronyms used, are over my head. But, in my humble opinion, not thinking is boring, thinking is good, and over-thinking is an adventure.

I believe Ron came to us with a genuine request for opinions and he has surely received them. For me, not being a trained engineer, the process of overthinking is a very short trip. But, it has been very entertaining since it does not involve my money, time, or the emotional anxiety that comes from the disappointing performance of my efforts.

So far, what sticks in my mind is that we have varying opinions regarding how to address the performance issues. Mainly, fuel/air ratio (delivery), and timing (cam/ignition). Some of the suggestions are more time consuming and costly than others. So, what's the best approach to organize and develop a progression of remedies? Mine would be the easiest first. Either a different carburetor or different jets in the one currently mounted.

Next would be to experiment with the points gap/dwell angel, and if those fail, then off with the valve covers, to the valve adjusters, and lastly, changing out the cam. The real difficult part of the various exercises is that good notes and patience would be required because every one of these items are interrelated. Changing one of the settings will probably require tweaking others. Thinking about it is an adventure for me...Ron, you will have to define it for yourself, but I thank you for the opportunity to ponder it with you.

[christophe]

I too am an over-thinker. I just wonder if I'd be happier overall with a milder or stock cam.
I borrowed a good quality vacuum gauge ( instead of my40+ year old unknown gauge) and there is definite needle shake at idle which I did not see with my old cheapy. Best as I recall, this is due to a long duration cam.

Just google vacuum gauge reading chart and you'll get all the info needed. A shaky needdle at idle is usually the sign of a bad mixture adjustment.
I know I have somewhere the formula used for determining the size of a right carb for a given engine. I'll try fo find this one for you.
Nice day to all.

[doofus]

Ron, just because that AS has been "Kitted" dont mean it's right! they can be a handfull at times. go back and check the carb, look for a hung power valve or loose main jet. i have had stranger things happen! i used a holley 1 bbl from an OHC jeep on my 60 170 eons ago, had to make it fit but it worked great. keep at it and let us hear from you. Luck Doofus

[Ron Dame]

Just google vacuum gauge reading chart and you'll get all the info needed. A shaky needdle at idle is usually the sign of a bad mixture adjustment.
I know I have somewhere the formula used for determining the size of a right carb for a given engine. I'll try fo find this one for you.
Nice day to all.

It's alos common with a lot of overlap. I've checked for vacuum leaks and all. From people like Jack Vines, I'm leaning towards cam, which creates low vacuum, and thus the mixture is off

[skyway]

Friend of mine built two OHV 185’s; one in a ‘54 Champion 4dr, & the other in a hot rod ‘49 business coupe. Stock engines but for the crank & pistons. Both were noticeably strong & quick, and with a 2 bbl carb & driven hard, were too much for first gear in a T-96. Spend a lot of time looking for the elusive “taxi cab” bell housing so’s to run a T-86 & 2 bbl carb but never found one.

[doofus]

Skyway has a good idea, an adapter and a 2 bbl carb for test purposes. might sow up some problems or solutions. if you want to try modifying a stock manifold i have a left over set you are welcome to , PM me for details. Luck Doofus

[skyway]

Yes, in a truck you would not have the issue of over stressing a T-96, or a weak rear end.

[Ron Dame]

Jack and I have been discussing this issue. Based on the cam card, it's ground like an R2 1/2 or R3. That does explain a lot.
I also need a new, reliable vacuum gauge, mine showed 18" at idle, and steady (It's 40-45 years old, and cheap then) and two newer gauges, one from a friend and one from Advance Auto show 11"-12" and a vibrating needle. So does the S-W aircraft manifold gauge I am planning to install in the truck. Everything else checks out: ignition, compression, vacuum leaks, etc.

[doofus]

Ron, 2 things you need to know. 1 vacuum at road speed, 2 vacuum reading when power valve is supposed to open. i have no idea where to find the second but if they are close you are driving around with the carb at "Full Rich"! the metering rod is strictly mechanical but the power valve is vacuum controlled. Luck Doofus