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  • Engine: Commander 6 squeak

    This is confounding me and I hope somebody can help!
    Fresh rebuilt 245. Ran break-in successfully. Loud rhythmic squeak at idle and low engine speed, cold and hot. Disappears completely at 1200 RPM and above. The squeak is at valve train speed (320 squeaks per minute running at 640 RPM). Much louder with breather cap removed. I removed the fan belt and ran the engine - no change in squeaking. I shorted out each plug - no change in squeaking. I removed the valve covers and oil deflectors inside - no change. I squirted oil on each valve spring damper thinking one might be rubbing its spring - no change. Has anybody had this and resolved it? Thanks!! Glenn

  • #2
    Have you checked the Oil Pan for unusual shapes, dents etc. especially at the front where it is shallow and close to the Con. Rods?

    There are cases where a scrape sounds like a squeak or ring.
    Also check out the Distributor, also running at Cam speed.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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    • #3
      Thanks! The oil pan is not dented. I’ll pull the distributor and see if I can find anything there.

      Comment


      • #4
        When I rebuilt my 226 in my M16 in 2017 I had exactly the same thing happen. Started right after first start and got progressively louder and yes it could be heard more easily through the breather tube. Thought it might be either the oil pump or the distributor as I replaced the oil pump and when I reinstalled the distributor it seemed to turn in the block like it was riding something. I tightened it down anyway. I loosened the clamp bolt that locks it to the vacuum advance unit and pulled it up a bit, to relieve any pressure on the oil pump gears. Can't remember if the sqeak went away right after that but it did eventually go away. Or so I thought. I've put about 2500 miles on it since the rebuild. Last fall or early spring this year (can't remember which, ) I started it after it had sat for several months and the weather was real cool and the sqeak was back! It disappeared fairly quickly though and was gone by the time it was warmed up. I too would like to know what this could be, just glad to know I'm not alone with this problem.

        Roger List
        Roger W. List
        Proud Studebaker Owner

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        • #5
          the 245 in my 50 Commander squeaks at idle, but I thought that was something going bad in the vibration damper.
          Last edited by RadioRoy; 08-29-2020, 04:17 PM.
          RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

          17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
          10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
          10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
          4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
          5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
          56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
          60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

          Comment


          • #6
            What really makes this maddening is that it is at the frequency of the camshaft, sounds like it is one half of the engine RPM. Almost anything else that could be making noise would tend to be at crankshaft speed or faster, such as the generator.

            Roger List
            Roger W. List
            Proud Studebaker Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              How about the fuel pump? It's running off an eccentric on the camshaft. You could remove it, put a temporary plate in place of it, and run the engine off a temporary fuel container hung high over the engine (directly to the carb). That would eliminate (or confirm) it as the source of the noise.
              Paul
              Winston-Salem, NC
              Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

              Comment


              • #8
                I thought of that but when listening directly on the pump it wasn't noticeable. When listening through the breather it was clearly audible. Still a possibility though. I might mention that when I first heard it the whole front clip was off which gave direct access to everything on the engine and the fan belt was off too.

                Roger List
                Roger W. List
                Proud Studebaker Owner

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                • #9
                  A mechanic's stethoscope would be of great help here. How is your oil pressure? The valve train or the cam gear might be starving for oil at idle. Have you checked that the relief valve is working properly?
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Roger, on a 170 Champ rebuild i got a wrong camshaft plug at the back of the block. it pushed the cam forward and overheated the front cam bearing. it sounded exactly like a dry rocker arm squeaking! we pulled pan and saw a drop of "Babbitt" at the bottom of the front cam bearing! exactly what does your squeak sound like? Luck Doofus

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                    • #11
                      Keep in mind that every suggestion given is a sincere attempt to assist you in diagnosing your problem. I have zero experience with a 6cyl Commander engine, but one problem I had on a V8 engine was my own fault for thinking I could make my own timing cover gasket. I had a similar sound as I'm imagining you are experiencing. After much checking and speculating, I finally broke out my mechanic's stethoscope and located the most prominent sound in the timing cover/fuel pump area. So, reluctantly, I removed the fuel pump, Radiator, pulled off the front pulley, and removed the timing cover. My goofy attempt to make my custom (too thin) timing cover gasket caused the "oil slinger" to contact the timing cover. So...I had a small groove ground into the timing cover!

                      Fortunately, I hadn't run the engine enough to cause catastrophic particulate to course through the engine, but I removed the oil pan and cleaned it thoroughly (again), just to be sure. But, it taught me a very good lesson about gaskets. Besides their purpose of "sealing," they also provide critical "clearance" duties...the timing cover is one area, and, at least on our Studebaker V8, the water pump is another.
                      John Clary
                      Greer, SC

                      SDC member since 1975

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                      • #12
                        This could be related to few things, but my guess is a camshaft bearing (perhaps not receiving proper lubrication).
                        Gary L.
                        Wappinger, NY

                        SDC member since 1968
                        Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for all the info and ideas. Interesting I’m not the only one with a squeaky engine!

                          I re-ran all the tests and found an earlier error. I said shorting each plug made no difference in the noise, but shorting them again reveals that #6 shorted diminishes the noise substantially. Shorting the other plugs slows the engine a little, but the squeak remains the same.

                          So, the squeak is coming from cylinder #6, happens once per cycle (every two rotations of the crank), and is diminished substantially if cyl #6 doesn’t fire. The squeak also disappears above 1,200 RPM. Ideas?

                          I’m going to check the valve adjustment in #6 and think some more. Any ideas welcome. Thanks!

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                          • #14
                            Can you idle the engine with the rear valve cover off? That way you can look to see if a valve is sticking - if you can get it to idle slowly enough.
                            RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                            17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                            10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                            10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                            4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                            5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                            56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                            60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Reach down to the heat riser valve and rotate it as slowly as you can , back and forth to open/ close it... You might hear it squeak.
                              You are probably missing the small, anti- rattle spring.
                              A bit of PB blaster now and then will keep it quiet.

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