OverDrive riggin' question

[skyway]

My GT Hawk has run for years with a Ford T-85, a floor shifter, and a toggle switch mounted on the front of the center console. I love it.

With a 3.73 diff., in town with frequent stop signs I can stay in first gear and then flip the toggle and let off the gas for first overdrive. You also get to go from OD to direct drive without having to floor the accelerator. Only trick is to remember to be out of overdrive before trying to engage Reverse.

[Mark57]

Online O/D manual for anyone interested.

http://www.tocmp.com/manuals/trans/Borg-Warner%20Overdrive/index.htm

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island

Are you planning to attend the NW Overdrive Tour in Parksville, BC
May 23 & 24, 2009?</h5>

[mbstude]

Thanks for the info guys, you especially Mike. Hope to see you around soon, too!

We didn't get around to swappin' trannies this weekend, maybe sometime soon though..

Thanks again everyone. [8D]

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

[rkapteyn]

What is not clear and was mentioned by Bob Palma that you grind up the overdrive unit (kaput , hundred of dollars worth of parts ruined)
if you go in reverse with the overdrive engaged.
Some of the older transmissions had a rail lockout switch that opened the circuit when you went into reverse.
Make sure this switch is wired in if you use a manual switch.

[ma1951]

Matthew,

I can not remember where I got my hot wire from, because I don't know if you remember, but I had to re-wire that car completely. But all you do is find a source for the hot wire, properly fuse the line for a 12 volt solenoid, run hot wire to toggle switch, then from toggle switch down to solenoid on transmission. That should get it.

[mbstude]

quote:Originally posted by ma1951

Matthew,
I am the one you are referring to with the toggle switch. You just have to run a wire to the solenoid from toggle switch and you got it. All of the other overdrive components are just to control when the solenoid comes in and out.

Thanks for responding Mike, I was hoping you would. I remembered you having a switch on the '51, but had no clue as to how it was wired up.

If we do end up putting an OD trans in the car, what wires will I need to hook up, other than a wire from the switch to the solenoid? I would think a hot wire would need to be ran somewhere...

I don't want all the other 'components' that are needed to make the OD normally operate, just a simple flick of a switch to engage the OD whenever I need it.

I only intend to use the OD if I go out of town, which rarely happens. But if I do need to, it'd be nice to have the option of overdrive.

If nobody knows how to "Redneck Engineer" an overdrive, I'll just stick in another standard 3 speed and forget about it. [)]

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

[ma1951]

Matthew,
I am the one you are referring to with the toggle switch. You just have to run a wire to the solenoid from toggle switch and you got it. All of the other overdrive components are just to control when the solenoid comes in and out.

[gordr]

The manual switch can be a neat gadget, if you use it carefully. But remember, those R10 overdrives used behind T86 and T96 transmissions have only 3 small planet gears, each about an inch long by an inch in diameter. They transmit ALL the torque when you are in OD.

And if you are in second gear, or worse, first gear, they transmit ALL the torque from the engine, AS MULTIPLIED BY the gears in the transmission.

You can most likely get away with using second overdrive, as long as it's just to avoid shifting gears in city traffic, and you avoid hard acceleration. Use first gear overdrive, and get on the throttle, and you may do it a few times, but not very many! The stock automatic overdrive controls are designed in such a way that getting overdrive in lower gears is discouraged.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[Tom Bredehoft]

I think you will have to start with a functioning system and modify it.

When I got my first Studebaker, a `50 Land Cruiser, It came from a retired dealer,who had kept his Demonstrator. I don't know if it had every option, but it had several. One was a little ring switch on the shift arm, about an inch in from the plastic knob. The switch rolled fore and aft, about 1/3 turn. In the back position, the gear shift worked as if the switch wasn't there, speed up to 30, let up on the gas and shift into OD, floor it and shift into passing gear, etc. drop down to 23 or so and drop out of OD.

If you rolled it forward, it never came out of OD. It would start in OD in first, and just shift like a three speed. But it wouldn't go into reverse. You had to shift the ring into 'reverse' to get it to back up. [edit] The switch grounded the governor, making the OD solenoid think the car was going over 30.

I know I bought the car from the original owner/dealer, I always thought this was a factory option. I have not (in 9 years) been able to confirm this, no one has ever heard of it.

The point of the story is that if you had a switch like this, or the T handle on the floor shifter, you could shift it in or out of OD at any time you so desired. BUT you gotta have it working like it's supposed to first.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
'55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
(Under Construction 564 hrs.)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

[mbstude]

Sorry to confuse all you guys. I'm pretty confused myself! [:I]

The car doesn't have Overdrive, and I want to add it. Heck, there's enough OD cars here that I can figure out how to do it 'right', and going by the advice here, I may just do that..

I thought you could 'straight wire' it somehow and use the toggle switch to operate the OD, without adding the relay, kickdown, etc. I usually don't leave the city limits in the car, and have no need for OD. But I'd like to have the option if I decide to go out of town and hit the highway. [8D]

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

[vegas paul]

I replaced my 3-speed with a 3-speed OD and did it strictly by the book, after having this similar conversation (via this forum) with some of you experts. Initially I also thought I would "shortcut" the system and install some non-original switch to control things. However, I was convinced (by others) that this wan't the best idea. I can tell you over a year later, I am VERY happy with the way my OD works now, and I am glad I did it the original way. The only modification that I feel is permissable is to make the OD cable non-functional by securing the lever in the "rearward" position at all times. I did this only because at first, I didn't have the correct cable. Eventually, I fixed that too.

Las Vegas, NV - Stop by, coffee's on!
'51 Champion Business Coupe G899965 10G-Q4-1434

[bams50]

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

I mis-understood. I thought he was adding an OD to a non OD equipped car. My bad.

No, Dick, I think you got it right- Matthew said:

"we might as well put in an Overdrive while we're at it."

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

Dick: The above instructions to Matthew assume the system is wired and operating normally, and he just wants to alter the system so he can place it in overdrive at will, below the governor cut-in speed. That seemed to be all he was asking, and he posted that it answered his question.

I mis-understood. I thought he was adding an OD to a non OD equipped car. My bad.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[IMG][/IMG]

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

FWIW, I've used the toggle switch system, but wouldn't do it again. No one's memory is sufficient when lunching the overdrive is at stake.

The OEM Stude system is dead simple to wire and is idiot proof. Take a few minutes and you'll be glad you did.

Once, when I installed a floor shift in a '56 Flight Hawk, I moved the kickdown switch over under the hood to where it could be actuated by the now unused shift arm on the steering column. If I were doing it again, I'd get a Hurst LineLock shift ball with a pushbutton built in. That's the absolute best way to make like a six-speed.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

Jack's points are valid, too; I have no argument with his suggestions. BP

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

I want to do the same in the Ute, but you've lost me, Bob.

Seems like the solenoid would need to be wired in somehow also?
Dick Steinkamp

Dick: The above instructions to Matthew assume the system is wired and operating normally, and he just wants to alter the system so he can place it in overdrive at will, below the governor cut-in speed. That seemed to be all he was asking, and he posted that it answered his question.

If you are starting from scratch, you have to wire up the solenoid through the appropriate relay, etc. It is best to have a wiring diagram to do so.

In fact, if you are starting from scratch, the best advice would be to buy a copy of Randy Rundle's Borg-Warner Overdrive Book from his store, Fifth Avenue Antique Auto Parts in Clay Center KS. He advertises monthly in the Turning Wheels classifieds. It's a good book with a comprehensive description of the system and large, easily-understood wiring diagrams. BP