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  • OverDrive riggin' question

    The 3 speed tranny in the '62 Lark Jet Thrust Six is about to call it quits. Being the trans will need to be replaced, we might as well put in an Overdrive while we're at it.

    I really don't want to deal with putting the relay/kickdown/etc on the car, and I've seen people wire it up with a simple toggle switch. (6 speed tranny[)]) My question is, what is the switch wired to?

    Thanks in advance. [8D]

    Matthew Burnette
    Hazlehurst, GA



  • #2
    Matthew check out this guys setup. Its a T85N (GM version)but the principles are the same.

    http://www.classictruckshop.com/club...over/drive.htm


    3E38
    4E2
    4E28
    5E13
    7E7
    8E7
    8E12
    8E28

    59 Lark
    etc

    Comment


    • #3
      The toggle switch is wired in the governor circuit, Matthew, and simply replaces the governor.

      Disconnect the wire at the governor. Connect the governor end of the wire to one side of the toggle switch. Connect a ground wire to the other side of the toggle switch.

      When the switch is open (i.e, "off,"), you have no ground and, hence, no overdrive capability. When you flip the switch, it grounds the wire just as the governor would ground the wire if you were going fast enough, and you have overdrive capability.

      Don't forget to flip the switch "off" if you intend to back up. BP
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks BP, that's just what I wanted to know. [8D]

        Matthew Burnette
        Hazlehurst, GA


        Comment


        • #5
          FWIW, I've used the toggle switch system, but wouldn't do it again. No one's memory is sufficient when lunching the overdrive is at stake.

          The OEM Stude system is dead simple to wire and is idiot proof. Take a few minutes and you'll be glad you did.

          Once, when I installed a floor shift in a '56 Flight Hawk, I moved the kickdown switch over under the hood to where it could be actuated by the now unused shift arm on the steering column. If I were doing it again, I'd get a Hurst LineLock shift ball with a pushbutton built in. That's the absolute best way to make like a six-speed.

          thnx, jack vines

          PackardV8
          PackardV8

          Comment


          • #6
            I want to do the same in the Ute, but you've lost me, Bob.

            Seems like the solenoid would need to be wired in somehow also?


            Dick Steinkamp
            Bellingham, WA

            [IMG][/IMG]

            Dick Steinkamp
            Bellingham, WA

            Comment


            • #7
              quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

              I want to do the same in the Ute, but you've lost me, Bob.

              Seems like the solenoid would need to be wired in somehow also?
              Dick Steinkamp
              Dick: The above instructions to Matthew assume the system is wired and operating normally, and he just wants to alter the system so he can place it in overdrive at will, below the governor cut-in speed. That seemed to be all he was asking, and he posted that it answered his question.

              If you are starting from scratch, you have to wire up the solenoid through the appropriate relay, etc. It is best to have a wiring diagram to do so.

              In fact, if you are starting from scratch, the best advice would be to buy a copy of Randy Rundle's Borg-Warner Overdrive Book from his store, Fifth Avenue Antique Auto Parts in Clay Center KS. He advertises monthly in the Turning Wheels classifieds. It's a good book with a comprehensive description of the system and large, easily-understood wiring diagrams. BP
              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

              Ayn Rand:
              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

              Comment


              • #8
                quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

                FWIW, I've used the toggle switch system, but wouldn't do it again. No one's memory is sufficient when lunching the overdrive is at stake.

                The OEM Stude system is dead simple to wire and is idiot proof. Take a few minutes and you'll be glad you did.

                Once, when I installed a floor shift in a '56 Flight Hawk, I moved the kickdown switch over under the hood to where it could be actuated by the now unused shift arm on the steering column. If I were doing it again, I'd get a Hurst LineLock shift ball with a pushbutton built in. That's the absolute best way to make like a six-speed.

                thnx, jack vines

                PackardV8
                Jack's points are valid, too; I have no argument with his suggestions. BP
                We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                Ayn Rand:
                "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

                  Dick: The above instructions to Matthew assume the system is wired and operating normally, and he just wants to alter the system so he can place it in overdrive at will, below the governor cut-in speed. That seemed to be all he was asking, and he posted that it answered his question.

                  I mis-understood. I thought he was adding an OD to a non OD equipped car. My bad.

                  Dick Steinkamp
                  Bellingham, WA

                  [IMG][/IMG]

                  Dick Steinkamp
                  Bellingham, WA

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

                    I mis-understood. I thought he was adding an OD to a non OD equipped car. My bad.
                    No, Dick, I think you got it right- Matthew said:

                    "we might as well put in an Overdrive while we're at it."

                    Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                    Parish, central NY 13131

                    "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

                    "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I replaced my 3-speed with a 3-speed OD and did it strictly by the book, after having this similar conversation (via this forum) with some of you experts. Initially I also thought I would "shortcut" the system and install some non-original switch to control things. However, I was convinced (by others) that this wan't the best idea. I can tell you over a year later, I am VERY happy with the way my OD works now, and I am glad I did it the original way. The only modification that I feel is permissable is to make the OD cable non-functional by securing the lever in the "rearward" position at all times. I did this only because at first, I didn't have the correct cable. Eventually, I fixed that too.

                      Las Vegas, NV - Stop by, coffee's on!
                      '51 Champion Business Coupe G899965 10G-Q4-1434

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sorry to confuse all you guys. I'm pretty confused myself! [:I]

                        The car doesn't have Overdrive, and I want to add it. Heck, there's enough OD cars here that I can figure out how to do it 'right', and going by the advice here, I may just do that..

                        I thought you could 'straight wire' it somehow and use the toggle switch to operate the OD, without adding the relay, kickdown, etc. I usually don't leave the city limits in the car, and have no need for OD. But I'd like to have the option if I decide to go out of town and hit the highway. [8D]

                        Matthew Burnette
                        Hazlehurst, GA


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think you will have to start with a functioning system and modify it.

                          When I got my first Studebaker, a `50 Land Cruiser, It came from a retired dealer,who had kept his Demonstrator. I don't know if it had every option, but it had several. One was a little ring switch on the shift arm, about an inch in from the plastic knob. The switch rolled fore and aft, about 1/3 turn. In the back position, the gear shift worked as if the switch wasn't there, speed up to 30, let up on the gas and shift into OD, floor it and shift into passing gear, etc. drop down to 23 or so and drop out of OD.

                          If you rolled it forward, it never came out of OD. It would start in OD in first, and just shift like a three speed. But it wouldn't go into reverse. You had to shift the ring into 'reverse' to get it to back up. [edit] The switch grounded the governor, making the OD solenoid think the car was going over 30.

                          I know I bought the car from the original owner/dealer, I always thought this was a factory option. I have not (in 9 years) been able to confirm this, no one has ever heard of it.

                          The point of the story is that if you had a switch like this, or the T handle on the floor shifter, you could shift it in or out of OD at any time you so desired. BUT you gotta have it working like it's supposed to first.

                          [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
                          Tom Bredehoft
                          '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
                          '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
                          (Under Construction 564 hrs.)
                          '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
                          All Indiana built cars

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The manual switch can be a neat gadget, if you use it carefully. But remember, those R10 overdrives used behind T86 and T96 transmissions have only 3 small planet gears, each about an inch long by an inch in diameter. They transmit ALL the torque when you are in OD.

                            And if you are in second gear, or worse, first gear, they transmit ALL the torque from the engine, AS MULTIPLIED BY the gears in the transmission.

                            You can most likely get away with using second overdrive, as long as it's just to avoid shifting gears in city traffic, and you avoid hard acceleration. Use first gear overdrive, and get on the throttle, and you may do it a few times, but not very many! The stock automatic overdrive controls are designed in such a way that getting overdrive in lower gears is discouraged.

                            Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                            Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Matthew,
                              I am the one you are referring to with the toggle switch. You just have to run a wire to the solenoid from toggle switch and you got it. All of the other overdrive components are just to control when the solenoid comes in and out.

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