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  • Steering: Ross Steering Box "Tight Steer"

    Has anyone installed one of these, and if so, what was the result? They are available for Studebaker...
    https://www.kaiserwillys.com/media/w...structions.pdf

  • #2
    The thing will work for a little while, but it is only a band aid. It's use will only delay the inevitable need to remove and rebuild the box. Depending on what the ware factor is, it can cause more damage to the hard internal components of the box, so that when you have to face the inevitable rebuild the cost will be much higher.

    I've all ready rebuilt several and have found the internal components to be a total loss. So, most of the little tricks used to repair a box become null and void. Machining parts, price wise, has become obscene unless you have a lathe and can make your own. At $158.00 an hour, turning shafts, making bushings and swedging new gears onto shafts (you have to find pins and gears $$$), becomes even more expensive.

    Some of these NOS parts, post and cam (worm gear), and cam lever shafts (sector shaft), are extremely hard to come by and expensive. Either of the above, added expenses, pushes the rebuild price about 500 percent higher then a normal rebuild would cost.

    Pay now, or pay more later? Of course, if your going to sell the vehicle, then let the new owner worry with it.

    Bo

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    • #3
      I used one and got another 10,000 miles out of a truck steering gear. Probably could have gone farther but chose to rebuild the unit.

      JT

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      • #4
        A friend with a pickup put one on and loves it. I installed one on my Willys pickup and it didn't really make that much difference.

        Comment


        • #5
          My internal parts are not worn (17,000 original miles), and I want to keep it that way. I'm going to install one of these, and won't ever worry about it again...for the amount of driving I do, it will last MY lifetime. The Ross box in my Sky Hawk was a poor design to begin with...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 345 DeSoto View Post
            My internal parts are not worn (17,000 original miles), and I want to keep it that way. I'm going to install one of these, and won't ever worry about it again...for the amount of driving I do, it will last MY lifetime. The Ross box in my Sky Hawk was a poor design to begin with...
            This thing is only used when you have loose steering due to worn internal steering gear components, ie., worm gear, sector.

            It does nothing for you if your bearings, races and bushings are worn. Except make matters worse for driving.

            It will do nothing for you if your steering is within specs. But, it will provide more internal friction.

            If your internal hard parts aren't worn, bearings and bushings are good, then why on Earth would you think you need one of these???? Perhaps, something else is loose in your steering system???

            This thing increases pressure on the worm gear by driving the sector shaft (pins) further into the grooves until either the pins ware completely out, or they bottom out on the worm gear, at which point it's completely worn out, too. Increase in pressure causes increase in contact friction which causes increase in contact ware................. Not to mention harder steering on a non-power steering vehicle.

            Seems pretty self defeating to me, especially if you have a nice, no problem (no ware) 17k box. Especially, if you want to keep it that way for your life time.............

            There is nothing wrong with the Ross box in your Sky Hawk. Studebaker didn't use it because it was a poor design as you have opined. It was designed to provide good service for about 10 years, given normal maintenance and periodic servicing. Something that few Studebaker owners did, back in the day.

            No offense, but do yourself a favor. Sell the Hawk and go buy a Chevrolet. Most of them didn't last long enough to need servicing in my life time...... and they had both Gemmer and then Saginaw steering gear boxes in them.

            Bo
            Last edited by Bo Markham; 05-17-2020, 03:42 PM.

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            • #7
              Guess I have been lucky with Stude steering gearboxes, as I can only recall replacing a couple of them, and both of them at well over 200,000 miles. I have swapped out several 56J Rosses(?) though, to install Saginaw PS.

              The Stude will never have a, "tight steer" though as a modern car does.

              Comment


              • #8
                As Bo said, it will not help if the bearings and bushings are worn out. However, the slop cannot be adjusted out without the gear binding off the center, the tightsteer will
                compensate for that, by keeping a more constant mesh with the cam and lever.

                JT

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bo Markham - "do yourself a favor. Sell the Hawk and go buy a Chevrolet." Just looking for a little advice, and you offered as little as anybody...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 345 DeSoto View Post
                    The Ross box in my Sky Hawk was a poor design to begin with...
                    Well in the first place, you opined something that is just not true.

                    [QUOTE=345 DeSoto;n1836251] I'm going to install one of these, and won't ever worry about it again... for the amount of driving I do, it will last my lifetime.

                    Then you further exhibit your ignorance by making the other statement.

                    Obviously, you've decided to break your Hawk despite people advising you the contrary. Your car, your choice, your life time.....

                    Don't get upset when someone calls you on the above. Too many people out there spouting nonsense like this all ready, without having it espoused on the SDC forum as some sort of well received gospel.

                    This gadget isn't the fix all you seem to envision. It's a band aid for a overly used and worn out steering gear box, which you indicated your 17k box isn't.

                    Don't poo poo someone for the advice given, especially, (1) if the advice is based on fact and experience, and (2) if the given advice isn't what you wanted to hear in the first place......

                    I stand by everything I've said, not because it is my opinion, but because of the many boxes I've had to rebuild, and how I've had to rebuild them, because of it.

                    You get the good, the bad and the ugly. Unless your ready to hear a fact based answer contrary to your opinions, don't ask the question.....

                    I'm sorry if you consider this rude and crude, but nobody guaranteed you that anybody would fall all over themselves in agreement with what you obviously wanted to hear....

                    At least, I was civil. I did say no offense!

                    Bo
                    Last edited by Bo Markham; 05-18-2020, 02:11 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I reiterate my last Post. BTW, if you're going to call someone ignorant, at least spell ignorant correctly. And " To many people out there spouting nonsense" should be TOO many people out there etc, etc.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oilnsteel View Post
                        As Bo said, it will not help if the bearings and bushings are worn out. However, the slop cannot be adjusted out without the gear binding off the center, the tightsteer will
                        compensate for that, by keeping a more constant mesh with the cam and lever.

                        JT
                        True.

                        I've had one on my M15A for about 20k miles and it has been great. I might have purchased the wrong one and could not use the jam nut supplied but instead used a washer to get the adjustment correct. I rebuilt my Ross by replacing the bushings and seals, new gaskets, and that fancy grease that SI sells then added the Tight Steer doohickey. It does not fix or band-aid any bushing wear but it does compensate for gear wear. that is uneven as one rotates the shaft.
                        1948 M15A-20 Flatbed Truck Rescue
                        See rescue progress here on this blog:
                        http://studem15a-20.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bo Markham View Post
                          The thing will work for a little while, but it is only a band aid. It's use will only delay the inevitable need to remove and rebuild the box. Depending on what the ware factor is, it can cause more damage to the hard internal components of the box, so that when you have to face the inevitable rebuild the cost will be much higher.

                          I've all ready rebuilt several and have found the internal components to be a total loss. So, most of the little tricks used to repair a box become null and void. Machining parts, price wise, has become obscene unless you have a lathe and can make your own. At $158.00 an hour, turning shafts, making bushings and swedging new gears onto shafts (you have to find pins and gears $$$), becomes even more expensive.

                          Some of these NOS parts, post and cam (worm gear), and cam lever shafts (sector shaft), are extremely hard to come by and expensive. Either of the above, added expenses, pushes the rebuild price about 500 percent higher then a normal rebuild would cost.

                          Pay now, or pay more later? Of course, if your going to sell the vehicle, then let the new owner worry with it.

                          Bo
                          Bo, what evidence do you have that the Tight Steer causes excessive wear? Have you run a test where 5 cars have it and 5 don't, 10K miles later tear them apart and measure the wear? Or are you viewing a correlational as causation?

                          Just because all the boxes you repair that have a Tight Steer are a "total loss" does not mean that the Tight Steer caused the excessive wear. Maybe, just maybe those boxes had a long life and someone added the Tight Steer to give them a longer life with tight steering?

                          Do you have any receipts to show the increased cost of the Tight Steer to be 500% greater? So a $300 rebuild turns into a $1,500 job? Any proof? Show us the "facts".
                          1948 M15A-20 Flatbed Truck Rescue
                          See rescue progress here on this blog:
                          http://studem15a-20.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 345 DeSoto View Post
                            I reiterate my last Post. BTW, if you're going to call someone ignorant, at least spell ignorant correctly. And " To many people out there spouting nonsense" should be TOO many people out there etc, etc.
                            Some times, the fingers are faster then the brain. Thanks for critiquing my fast take on spelling. I've learned something from this exchange, after all.

                            Oh, I did correct those misspellings.

                            I do apologize for the use of the "I" word. Obviously, I should have realized you were only spouting off something you heard some other "I" word fella that didn't know what he was talking about. Sorry, I used the "I" word again.

                            So, in the interest of the SDC and this forum, let's just agree to disagree and leave this discussion.

                            Since you've decided to use the gadget, I can only wish you good luck with it. Here's hoping you don't have any problems with the ole girl for as long as you live.

                            Bo
                            Last edited by Bo Markham; 05-18-2020, 04:14 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JohnM15 View Post

                              Bo, what evidence do you have that the Tight Steer causes excessive wear? Have you run a test where 5 cars have it and 5 don't, 10K miles later tear them apart and measure the wear? Or are you viewing a correlational as causation?

                              Just because all the boxes you repair that have a Tight Steer are a "total loss" does not mean that the Tight Steer caused the excessive wear. Maybe, just maybe those boxes had a long life and someone added the Tight Steer to give them a longer life with tight steering?

                              Do you have any receipts to show the increased cost of the Tight Steer to be 500% greater? So a $300 rebuild turns into a $1,500 job? Any proof? Show us the "facts".
                              Well John, let's see. A basic seal, bushings and gasket rebuild runs about $150.00, so a 500% increase would be right at $750.00. Which is just about what it costs for certain boxes. Not all, but some. Certain parts are in short supply and are expensive when you can find them. Then don't forget to add shipping/insurance two ways.

                              Evidence? I've built some where around 200 boxes over the last 30 years. Most all of these come from cars and trucks with between 100k and 300k miles on them. Of that number only a dozen have been a "total loss", internally. 5 suffered from water and rust issues. 1 the customer cut the long shaft off and the end of the sector with a "Blue Tool" to get it off the truck? The other 6 had the tight steer gadget installed. Of all these, only these 6 had pins that were bottomed out, with both pins and worm gear damaged beyond repair.

                              Hmmmm? Now, how could that have ever happened? Continual pressure exerted against the cam lever shaft to the point it bottoms out on the worm gear and ruins both. Duhhhhh! Doesn't take a professor to figure this one out......

                              Receipts, what receipts might you be talking about???

                              Bo
                              Last edited by Bo Markham; 05-19-2020, 12:43 PM.

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