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replacing the eccentric on the camshaft

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  • Fuel System: replacing the eccentric on the camshaft

    '63 GT HAWK 289 have not been able to replace a fuel pump. Have correct new pump but it appears that after installing it does not work! Tested OK.
    But, notice that the shaft from the pump does not seem to mate with the eccentric lobe? I have not used a light to look inside very carefully but it appears that the lobe is missing!
    Where did it go? I have found a new eccentric piece and need step by step instructions on how to replace it. Any help appreciated. Leland Smith, JR

  • #2
    How difficult was it to put the pump in place and bolt it in? In my experience, if it is too easy, it's probably not correctly installed. I think it is possible to put them in at the wrong angle and thus place the actuator arm above the cam instead of under it. Depending on the orientation of the cam, installing a fuel pump can be more difficult as resistance to the pump spring is greater if the cam is at its peak in the stroke cycle. Not a terrible or unusual mistake. I have done it myself, but can't remember if it was on a Studebaker, or a six-cylinder or V8 engine. The main thing I remember is that if the pump goes in too easy, without resistance from the actuator arm contacting the cam, it is probably not correct. Check that and let us know.
    John Clary
    Greer, SC

    SDC member since 1975

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    • #3
      Did you buy this pump from a on line website?

      I noticed the other Day that a Forum Member bought a "170" Champion 6 Cyl. Fuel Pump for his Commander 6 Cyl. "245"at one of the Large Vendors. When checking their Webside I found most of their Fuel Pumps listed with the Wrong Part Number vs application and 6 Cyl. Pump Photos.
      The Pump may be wrong for your application.

      Does it have a Long Actuating Lever like this V8 Airtex replacement pump? If not, it may be wrong.


      Click image for larger version  Name:	Airtex 4227.jpg Views:	0 Size:	55.5 KB ID:	1833842
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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      • #4
        The angle and length of the arm may be different from an original one.

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        • #5
          It's pretty hard to imagine the eccentric missing. How could it get out?
          RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

          17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
          10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
          10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
          4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
          5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
          56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
          60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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          • #6
            If it had come loose, or bolt broke, and it fell inside the timing cover, I'm guessing it would make quite a racket. If you can find somebody with a bore scope, you could get a lot better look at the lobe. Even the cheap ones from harbor freight work ok. It seems more likely that it is the wrong arm, or arm placement that is the problem. Good Luck with it!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RadioRoy View Post
              It's pretty hard to imagine the eccentric missing. How could it get out?
              After my first post here, Leland, his brother, and I got together and spoke by phone. We had an enjoyable conversation and I had to apologize for not having what I refer to as a "shirt pocket" answer to their dilemma. Unlike some of our members, I have mainly worked on and tinkered around with my own vehicles and (fortunately for me) have not had to dive deeply into my engines in years. Therefore, I was having difficulty in visualizing exactly where the eccentric for the fuel pump sat on the cam and how it was secured. So...I could only speak in generalities and was not much help except we had an enjoyable time talking about our Studebakers, fellow friends and past meets, and I felt bad that I wasn't much help.

              It troubled me to the point that as I was getting ready to turn in for the night, I couldn't get it off my mind. So I went to find a manual that could give me an illustration of the engine and its components. The first one I came across is a chassis parts catalog covering years from 1959 through 1964. I have a love/hate relationship with some of these manuals. I would have made a lousy parts counterman because I find these manuals drive me nuts. In this particular manual, the illustration that shows the cam and individual components is on page 9. Of course, the numbers on the illustration are called "group" numbers. You have to find the group numbers before you can find the actual "Part" number. Most of the cam related numbers are found on pages 28 and 29. But...not that excentric??? NOOooo...bolted right there on the end of the camshaft, it is apparently not part of the cam assembly...it is all the way deeper into the manual on page 73! Part number 1558821 as part of the "fuel system."

              Without having an engine on a stand, with the water manifold removed, crankshaft damper, pulley, and timing cover so I could test fit and examine, I really wonder if that eccentric could come loose and escape off the end of the camshaft? I'm not sure there is enough clearance for the bolt to work its way out far enough to fall down into the timing cover and allow the eccentric to fall off the end of the camshaft and wander around making trouble?

              I suspect that either my first post about incorrect installation or as others have mentioned an incorrect pump actuator arm is the culprit. Either of those options is easier to remedy than having to disassemble the front of the engine to look for wayward parts. I will anxiously await the report on what finally ends up solving the problem.
              John Clary
              Greer, SC

              SDC member since 1975

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              • #8
                I don't remember ever seeing an eccentric on a Studebaker V8 engine fail. And I also don't believe the eccentric has somehow separated from the front of the cam. The eccentric is a good sized chunk of metal and if it did somehow get loose it would most likely destroy everything on the front of the engine before the engine stopped turning. I'm thinking an incorrect fuel pump or maybe incorrect installation is the problem. Bud

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                • #9
                  pic of fuel pump eccentric on front of cam

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                  • #10
                    You must have saved that as a Thumbnail instead of Small, Medium or Large. So when you enlarge the too small Pic, it gets Smaller.

                    It mounts on the end of the Camshaft with a Screw and a Lock Tab that prevents spinning, pretty elementary.
                    StudeRich
                    Second Generation Stude Driver,
                    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                    • #11
                      During our conversation, I believe I heard Leland (or his brother) say that the engine will run fine priming the carburetor (pouring gas in) for a few moments until it burns up the small amount of gas. That should confirm that there's no problem with the timing gear and the engine is still functional.

                      Even if the bolt with its lock plate somehow loosened up...I don't think there's enough clearance for it to come out. In fact, there is very little clearance between the timing cover and moving parts it covers...in one of my very embarrassing stupid ideas, decades ago, I decided that I could use some "new" (at that time) material called something like "liquid gasket." I had just replaced the felt seal in a 259 timing cover and thought it would be a smart thing to slather the liquid gasket material on the timing cover and slap it on. The next morning, I was warming up the engine, very proud of my work for the previous evening. Checking for leaks, I noticed oil was again coming out the timing cover, and running down onto the front of the oil pan. That was when I began hearing a scraping/squealing noise at the front of the engine. Also, smelled something burning. The oil leak was worse than before I started the job!

                      Removing all the stuff required to get back to the seal was not all that much fun...once the timing cover was back off, I could quickly see what not having a real gasket had done. Without the gasket, the oil slinger on the end of the crankshaft was rubbing against the aluminum timing cover. Not only had it heated up and burned up my new felt seal, but that oil slinger was contacting the timing cover and had cut a groove in it! Due to my dumb move, I not only needed a new crankshaft seal, and a GASKET...but just to be safe, I replaced the timing cover! Gee...sometimes the stuff we discuss on this forum can make us uncover some of the embarrassing bad memories we thought we had buried long ago. But...this story illustrates how little clearance is between the timing cover and the moving parts behind it.
                      John Clary
                      Greer, SC

                      SDC member since 1975

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                      • #12
                        Take the pump off. Clean everything up good and do a practice fit. Without the bolts, 'dip' the arm so you are sure it is under the cam lobe. Now rock the pump downward while tilting the arm end upward into where the lobe should be and if the lobe is there, it will pump the arm. Now push the pump flat to the mounting surface and install the bolts.

                        The cam eccentric has a woodruff key, lock tab, and a pretty long bolt. The bolt will hit the timing cover before it unscrews all the way..... You'll hear it.

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                        • #13
                          GREAT NEWS!!! Got an email from Leland today explaining that a good neighbor who happens to be a great mechanic checked the car, used a borescope to confirm the eccentric was indeed in place, installed one of the pumps already on hand and everything is good! The Hawk now runs great!
                          John Clary
                          Greer, SC

                          SDC member since 1975

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                          • #14
                            Good to hear that. Thanks for the update.

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