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It could only happen to me...(pics)

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  • It could only happen to me...(pics)

    Took the Stude for a short drive and began to hear some very strange noises, like non that I had ever heard. When I finally got a chance to look at it, it was obvious that something bad had gone wrong, as the fan was flapping around like a fish out of water.
    Took it apart and found that the end of the water pump had broken off. This is a new water pump. I am running a Dave Tibeaut fan on the front(see pic), and a fan clutch. Everything spins easily, and the fan clutch is tight. Any thoughts?


    Here is a pic of the layout, pretty standard stuff.

    And my helper found this for me.

    Any thoughts?

  • #2
    It's the beagle's fault
    Jeff[8D]
    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff


    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

    Comment


    • #3
      Lucky the radiator didn't get ruined. I just picked up one of those fan assemblies with a five blade fan and it will be going on my Hawk. The water pump on it, is an Avanti unit with the gussets around the snout. The weight of the assembly is obviously quite a bit more than just fan. Hopefully this won't be another episode with water pumps...

      Bob Johnstone

      http://www.studebaker-info.org
      55 President State Sedan
      64 GT Hawk
      70 Avanti (R3)
      64 GT Hawk (K7)
      1970 Avanti (R3)

      Comment


      • #4
        Combination of heavy fan/clutch and high belt load. Make sure the fan clutch hub seats correctly on the water pump hub too.

        JDP/Maryland
        Please vote for Sid (64GT)in the NYT contest.
        http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/Contest/
        JDP Maryland

        Comment


        • #5
          Should I get the Avanti water pump? Have to run the big fan, it gets kinda warm here in Texas.

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't think that an Avanti pump will help you. The gussets support the housing and your housing looks fine (not the problem).
            You have too much weight and pressure hanging on the end of that pump. The fan clutch and huge six blade fan with a high angle are too much (in my opinion).
            You may have another cooling problem. Your car shouldn't need all of that, even in 100+ degrees. The most that I would go with is a factory HD five blade fan. If that doesn't cool enough, your block needs cleaning, your timing is off, your air flow is partially blocked and/or something else. The fan only draws ambient air through the radiator. It can't solve other cooling issues.

            Gary L.
            Wappinger, NY

            SDC member since 1968
            Studebaker enthusiast much longer
            Gary L.
            Wappinger, NY

            SDC member since 1968
            Studebaker enthusiast much longer

            Comment


            • #7
              I think the housing *is* the problem, looking at the pic I think that the housing cracked right around the fillet where the "nose" meets the rest of the body of the pump. Seems like either too much tension or just a fluke failure. Izzat a non-thermostatic (modern replacement) fan clutch? wonder if that could be the issue - it will cause extra load on the water pump. (great, something else for me to worry about.)

              I thought that the Avanti pump had a different size "nose" and therefore required a different fan clutch. Am I right or is my memory faulty again?

              Chuck, what do you think of the noise of that six blade fan? I am currently running a seven blade out of an old Pontiac on my '55; the clearance is very tight though because of the way the tips of the blades sweep. All the aftermarket fans I've seen have evenly spaced fan blades which I'm told (and it makes sense) may be louder due to harmonics. Do you find this to be the case?

              nate

              --
              55 Commander Starlight
              http://members.cox.net/njnagel
              --
              55 Commander Starlight
              http://members.cox.net/njnagel

              Comment


              • #8
                Nate,
                When I originally got the car it had a 4 blade fan, and no clutch. That thing was loud!!!!! I found an Avanti fan clutch and fan, that did well, but had a lot of clearance around the shroud. That was very quiet. I bought this fan from Dave T. It is slightly noisier than the five blade. It has good clearance around the shroud, and is a little noiser than the 5-blade, but not near as noisy as the 4-blade. This is an Avanti fan clutch.
                I have been thinking back, when I put this water pump on, the fan cluth was very tight going on over the tip on the end of the shaft of the water pump. It was not that way on the orig. water pump. JDP eluded to making sure that the fan clutch seat smoothly against the hub on the water pump. This may be the problem. I will try an Avanti water pump, and file a little metal out of the center of the fan clutch, and try again. Might as well do something twice, instead of the easy way and doing it once.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Are you also running a spacer behind the fan/clutch assembly? Those studs look really long. I run my fan/clutch assembly using only short bolts to the water pump hub. All that mass coupled with the possible problem JDP pointed out most likely contributed to the pumps failure.

                  60 Lark convertible
                  61 Champ
                  62 Daytona convertible
                  63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
                  63 Avanti (2)
                  66 Daytona Sport Sedan
                  59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
                  60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
                  61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
                  62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
                  62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
                  62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
                  63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
                  63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
                  64 Zip Van
                  66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
                  66 Cruiser V-8 auto

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This might sound redundant, but it looks like it warrants pulling the water pump off and seeing what happened on the back side. I also run short bolts with a fan clutch straight to the pulley and an allegedly heavy 7 blade(or whatever the big one was) with the largest diameter fan Studebaker could muster. Never has it walked like that(and it shouldn't), and it does a wonderful job cooling the engine. Yeah, it could be the water pump shaft was side loaded improperly if the clutch wasn't sitting square on the nose.

                    [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left][img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg[/img=left][IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
                    [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

                    1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                    1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                    1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                    1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How about a thermostatically controlled electric fan and throw away the fan mounted on the w-pump shaft.
                      /H

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes, Warren, there is a spacer. Come to think of it, it was the spacer that the fan clutch has some interference with. The studs are a little long, but I could not find any that were a 1/2" shorter. If you look at the fan clutch, it has holes in it, not slots. With the spacer, which you really need for a hawk, you can't use bolts. The car ran hotter without the spacer.By using some smoke, we could tell that the air was going around the fan, and not being sucked thru the radiator. The bolts will not go around the mass of the fan clutch. I could cut the holes and make slots, but that is at the risk of unbalancing the fan clutch.
                        As far as the pump, the housing broke, not the shaft or the impeller. The thing still cooled the engine, and it didn't leak untill I pulled it apart and wiggled it.
                        Hank, I agree, but has anyone run an electric fan with A/C, and a generator? I wonder if there is enough juice to do all of that, especially at night.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe not an option if going to car shows and getting judged, but how about a electric fan on the outside pushing and an all stock fan(no clutch, alot lighter) and pump on the inside. Just a another way to go I think.

                          1956 Studebaker Pelham Wagon Houston, Texas
                          Remember, \"When all is said and done. More is always said then ever done.\"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            quote:Originally posted by N8N

                            I thought that the Avanti pump had a different size "nose" and therefore required a different fan clutch. Am I right or is my memory faulty again??

                            nate

                            --
                            55 Commander Starlight
                            http://members.cox.net/njnagel
                            Nate,

                            You are correct on the Avanti HD water pump. I installed one on my '63 Champ, and it wasn't until I went to put the fan on that I noticed the locating 'nose' on the hub was sized different. IIRC, it was longer, and I machined the counterbore in the stock aluminum fan spacer deeper to compensate. (I was using a regular 4 blade fan.)

                            Paul
                            Winston-Salem, NC
                            Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com
                            Paul
                            Winston-Salem, NC
                            Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              See
                              http://www.studebaker-info.org/text3/waterpumps.txt

                              It looks like one of these bogus pumps.
                              Look at the size of the casting numbers as per article.

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