Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bell housing dial in

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • E. Davis
    replied
    Thanks for the info Joe, my transmission is the B/W T10 with the chevy shift pattern originally installed at the factory according to the build sheet.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeHall
    replied
    Originally posted by E. Davis View Post
    Thanks Rich. I was just replying to Jack's statement about "jumping out of gear and vibrations" and wondering if maybe my clutch chatter could be the result of a bell housing misalignment since the engine in my 61 was replaced by a "57" 289. The car also has a 307 rear end and I attributed the slight chatter on take off to the high gear ratio needing a little more rpms. I can control it by keeping the rpm's at the low end and not riding the clutch but it has always had a slight oil leak from the rear main and that may be getting on the clutch plate and causing some of it. Anyway, thanks again for the reply.
    Not sure which transmission you have, but T85s are prone to the chatter you describe, in low and in reverse. As you, I have learned to live with it, and minimize it by dropping RPM when letting the clutch out. I do not believe it has anything to do with oil on the clutch face, as it will occur with all fresh new components. I have heard it has to do with the input shaft end play, but never bothered to investigate, as I do not consider it a real problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeHall
    replied
    Some types of transmissions are more tolerant of misalignment than others, i.e T85 is very tolerant, but T86 is not. An old friend, Lester Schmidt literally drove his 58 TRANSTAR a million miles. He told me he went through half a dozen 259/289 motors, but the original T85 was untouched, except he replaced the input shaft bearing one time. He said he never aligned the bell housing when he swapped motors. I ran a T85 for 100,000 miles and never aligned its bell housing. When I replaced it with a rebuilt T86, it rattled in 2nd gear, and would occasionally pop out of 2nd gear under deceleration. I later dumped the T86 and installed another T85, and again no problem.

    I realigned the bell housing with the last motor swap, and have realigned several others. I have no idea about the FOM flex plate, but would definitely align the bell housing due to the potential disaster. Nowadays, I would realign the bell housing in any motor swap, just to avoid potential problems. It's easy enough to do anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • E. Davis
    replied
    Thanks Rich. I was just replying to Jack's statement about "jumping out of gear and vibrations" and wondering if maybe my clutch chatter could be the result of a bell housing misalignment since the engine in my 61 was replaced by a "57" 289. The car also has a 307 rear end and I attributed the slight chatter on take off to the high gear ratio needing a little more rpms. I can control it by keeping the rpm's at the low end and not riding the clutch but it has always had a slight oil leak from the rear main and that may be getting on the clutch plate and causing some of it. Anyway, thanks again for the reply.

    Leave a comment:


  • StudeRich
    replied
    Hi Earle not Jack, but many of us can tell you that it depends on the YEAR of your Hawk, it's "Replacement Engine" Year and what has been changed over all these years BEYOND what you know.

    An Original '63 or '64 would have the 3 Speed Clutch Housing, but '61's and "Supposedly" all '62's had the "Special" Clutch Housing for the Chevy Case T-10, not the Ford as '63, '64's.

    You can very easily spot a Clutch Housing for a Chevy Case T-10, because the lower Right Trans. Bolt support surface has a "Tube" type cast protrusion sticking out, VERY obvious.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 04-10-2020, 10:26 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • E. Davis
    replied
    One more easy question Jack. Is the same bell housing used for both 3 speed trannies and 4 speed T-10's. I ask this because the 4 speed in my Hawk is factory but the car does not have the original engine so I'm wondering if the 4 speed bell housing was used on the replacement engine or did they just bolt it up to the replacement engine bell.

    Leave a comment:


  • PackardV8
    replied
    Read Hot Rod Magazine sometime. They have a feature where they send a problem car to a shop where the experts fix whatever has been fouled up in fifty years of old muscle cars being built and rebuild. About every third problem child requires the bell housing to be dial indicated to the engine.

    I just went through all this in Jan2020 when I replaced my engine. My original bellhousing was out .018 on the new engine. I had another bellhousing that dialed in within .02 . The end result was there was absolutely no difference in the drive ability or the way the trans operated.
    And I've seen problems shifting, vibrations, jumping out of gear, input shaft bearing wear caused by a bell housing .018" out of alignment. Your results varied.

    jack vines

    Leave a comment:


  • jclary
    replied
    I suppose there were/are many situations where the bell housing and the engine stay together. When a transmission is damaged, you can bolt another one up and all is well. It's when the engine and its factory dialed-in bell housing get separated that things begin to go bad. I've always tried to keep Studebaker engines with their factory bell housing. I like keeping auto transmission equipped engines matched up too. Otherwise, the crankshaft bolts between torque converter engines and manual engines have to be addressed. I guess there's no way to know how many engine swaps involve keeping the original dialed-in bell housing and how many don't. We are not talking huge measurements when they are off, but we know how serious of a racket a cracked flex plate can make, and the havoc a wobbling pilot shaft can cause bearing failure and vibration.

    Another thing, I'm not so sure other makes that don't dial in their bell housings fit all that well either. Could be that their flexplates are engineered better, more robust, or they just get away with mechanical failures by making excuses for failed seals, bearings, and blaming the mechanical problems on the parts they have to replace.

    Our Studebakers are all over a half-century old now and I expect that in the years since, there has been improved accuracy in casting, computerized machining centers, etc., that more accurate mass machining of concentric mating parts has improved. But, in days gone by, when Studebaker had their own foundry, they should be commended for being conscientious enough to make the extra effort to see that their moving assembly ran true.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phatfenders
    replied
    I just went through all this in Jan2020 when I replaced my engine. My original bellhousing was out .018 on the new engine. I had another bellhousing that dialed in within .02 . The end result was there was absolutely no difference in the drive ability or the way the trans operated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dean McHenry
    replied
    I have dialed in many a time with International Pickups and Scouts. Doesn't seem to cause tranny problems but if you want a grabby clutch here is how it happens Once thing are centered all is good. DMc .

    Leave a comment:


  • Dwain G.
    replied
    Other car makes of the era specified the same procedures as Stude, I've seen it in their manuals.

    Leave a comment:


  • StudeRich
    replied
    More important on a Manual Trans. because of all the wear that could occur to the Pilot Bushing, Input Shaft, Bearing Retainer, Trans. Front Bearing, Mainshaft etc.

    They needed SOMETHING to keep Customers coming back to the Dealer after sale!

    Have you ever found one of the "Protector Service" Books in the Glove box that shows the New Car came in for the First ONE or TWO Maintenance Services and the rest of the Coupons are STILL in the book?

    I remember when I worked at Frost & French Studebaker in 1970-'71 we had customers coming in to have their Transmission "Problems" fixed a few thousand miles after having a Local "Garage" replace the Engine, and we Dialed them in with the trans. rebuild.

    Leave a comment:


  • Topper2011
    replied
    They couldn't do it for the manuals either.

    Leave a comment:


  • SScopelli
    replied
    Extremely dumbfounded that Stude engines could be precise machined enough to run a solid cam gear with consistent piston deck height
    and yet couldn't center a consistent dam bell housing like everyone else.

    I don't think it implies to manual transmissions as much as it does to automatic ones..

    Its probably because of the absurd 6" flex-plate they used which couldn't take being 0.006" slightly off center.



    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG-6824.JPG Views:	0 Size:	138.1 KB ID:	1829321
    Last edited by SScopelli; 04-09-2020, 12:56 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • StudeRich
    replied
    When you do Dial Indicate one of these NOT Factory dialed-in to the Crankshaft, Clutch Housings properly, you will be amazed how far out you have been or will be running your setup!

    Of COURSE it is possible that one in 10 or 12, MAY be within spec.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 04-09-2020, 12:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X