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2R5 Bell Housing Alignment

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  • Robert Crandall
    replied
    I made the transmission swap. For me this was a record time - only two days out of service! Both transmissions look good inside. My spare transmission also drops out of second gear, so no change there, but there is some change in the way each of them drops out of gear. My original transmission drops from second to neutral as soon as the load is released, every time. This spare one sometimes drops out of the gear but sometimes remains engaged in the synchronizer. Sometimes it drops out before I release the clutch to put the load on it.

    It was a nice experiment, and my curiosity is satisfied. As long as this now installed spare one works, I will leave it in place, although I do like the problem being the same each time better than I like the variety.

    Thanks for all of the advice. I will watch that video.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Crandall
    replied
    Thank you for the further advice. I like the video. I did not get to watch all of it yet, but I will. I will not get involved with spending money on my non-overdrive transmission because I hold out hope for getting an overdrive transmission installed, maybe someday. Having only the transmission but needing a shorter driveshaft, a 12V solenoid, and whatever linkages I would need keep that project on hold. It is described here:

    https://forum.studebakerdriversclub....n-for-1949-2r5

    If I can get to it, then I will try just a transmission swap to see if my spare transmission is less worn.

    Again, thanks for your help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Topper2011
    replied
    Does not sound like you have an input shaft, bell housing misalignment, that would cause a hard shifting condition. Like the T90, 2nd gear popping out is typical of worn parts. Many places have rebuild kids for this problem. Herm, the overdrive guy has a kit for that. I believe Novak also has one. Here's a good video on a T86 with overdrive that should be similar. Good luck.

    https://youtu.be/o2tFwBTrLRQ
    Last edited by Topper2011; 04-08-2020, 10:59 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • gordr
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Crandall View Post
    That is an interesting idea. I think switching transmissions is a task that I can do quickly enough to not make me wish that I had not messed with it. While it is out, there would be no harm done to just look at the alignment as described in post #8.

    I am intimidated by the task of getting the input shaft out of a transmission. It cannot be as hard as I think it is from my first readings of my reprint repair manual. The photos are so dark that I cannot tell what they show. I'll keep reading until I figure it out.
    Yes, it is that hard. The drill is to first drift out the cluster gear pin, following it with a shorter dummy pin to retain the needles and spacers, and let the cluster gear lie in the bottom of the case. Then one can remove either the input shaft, or the mainshaft, or both.

    Leave a comment:


  • gordr
    replied
    The standard method for measuring bellhousing alignment is put a fixture on the end of the crankshaft, ensure that the fixture is concentric with the crank, and then place a dial indicator on the fixture, and rotate it (keeping the crank still) to measure the distance from crank center to the perimeter of the opening in the bellhousing. I realized that fixing a pointer to the crankshaft, and rotating the crankshaft would accomplish the same end, and is perhaps easier to do with the engine in the car. So I wound up doing something similar to what Altair describes above. I used an engine valve as a support, clamped it to the crank flange, having removed the flywheel. Of course, you have also removed the bellhousing and pulled the dowels. On the stem of the valve, I had a small metal block with a tin pointer attached on a pivot with a friction spring, so it would move if pushed, but not shift from its own weight. Place the pointer in contact with the bellhousing hole at any arbitrary point, say 6:00. Turn the engine from the front (helps if spark plugs are out) one full turn. Chances are, the pointer will now be clear of the surface a few thou. Turn the engine again (having a helper at this point speeds up the process), and watch for where the pointer JUST touches the hole. That's the side that's too close to the crank center line. Get your rubber hammer, and tap the bellhousing to move it away from the pointer by a tiny amount.

    Now set the pointer to touch at the former close spot, and do the full turn again, and the "find the close spot" turn again. Rinse and repeat, as required. Eventually, a point is reached where the pointer drags lightly nearly all the way around the clock. That should put you within tolerance. Tighten the bellhousing bolts, check again to ensure it hasn't shifted, and if still good, redrill your dowel holes to a slightly larger size.

    Needless to say, this is all easier on the bench, with the block upside down, the crank sitting in the mains, and the main caps torqued down, but the rods not yet in.

    Also, if the engine is tired with worn bearings, the above procedure will set the bellhousing concentric with the crank as it lies in the rear main cap, and not where it might be spinning with the engine running. But, if the engine is that worn, you might want to be asking yourself, "why am I doing this?"

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Crandall
    replied
    That is an interesting idea. I think switching transmissions is a task that I can do quickly enough to not make me wish that I had not messed with it. While it is out, there would be no harm done to just look at the alignment as described in post #8.

    I am intimidated by the task of getting the input shaft out of a transmission. It cannot be as hard as I think it is from my first readings of my reprint repair manual. The photos are so dark that I cannot tell what they show. I'll keep reading until I figure it out.

    Leave a comment:


  • altair
    replied
    I would like to question some of the "can't be dones". If the flywheel is bolted to the crankshaft it would follow the same alignment as the crankshaft, and if the clutch disk is centered with the pressure plate, all of the components would follow the same alignment as the crankshaft. A dummy shaft would also follow the same alignment. I successfully completed this task with the flywheel and clutch in place using a wood dowel that I turned on my lathe, it was a size for size fit in to the pilot and equally a size for size fit through the clutch disk, the assembly becomes an extension of the crankshaft. With a pointer attached to the dowel directly at the bellhousing opening and measure the difference with a 360 degree turn. This may not be as accurate as a 3-4 hundred dollar dial gage but it is well within tolerances. My final measurements were within .001 - .002 I don't think I could be any closer. Please explain to me why the flywheel and clutch cannot be installed?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeffry Cassel
    replied
    Like they all said: it cannot be done properly with the clutch in the bell housing. You cannot use a dummy shaft. That is ALWAYS the trouble with cars as old as Studebakers; you decide to fix problem "A" and you find that you need to fix B,C,D, and E also. What would have taken a Sat afternoon ends up a 6 wk project. We feel your pain! Be careful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Crandall
    replied
    Thank you all for your information and for your help. Bob Johnston's website shows an article from TW which shows the alignment being done on an engine that is not in a vehicle, and the clutch is not in place. I was wondering if this alignment could be done by holding the clutch in the released position then inserting a transmission input shaft into the pilot bearing and attaching an indicator to that. I do not have a shaft that is not installed, so I have no knowledge on whether an indicator can be attached to one.

    A personal problem I have is that when I make the truck not driveable for even the simplest of tasks, it takes me, it seems, a month to get it back together again. There are multiple things that could be fixed, but it is driveable as is, so I put up with the problems and drive it. Taking the engine out and taking the bell housing off would open a list of "while I'm at its" that I am not able to address for now.

    I like the advice on the transmission. I have a spare 3 speed non OD transmission that looks good on the inside. It would not take long to switch them and see if there is a change there. I do have new grommets in the shift linkages. It shifts nicely; it just does not stay in second when the load is released.

    Again, thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • thehotrodder
    replied
    I am with gordr. From personal experience. My problem started with the truck under load like takeoff or whenever the engine vacuum would drop to almost nothing. This truck being my daily driver I just kept driving it and held the shifter firmly in place in anticipation of a load on the transmission. Eventually the problem got so bad that it would pop out just about whenever it felt like. Only in second gear though. Eventually I took it out and to a really good tranny man I know. With a donor tranny for hard parts. After reinstallation of the transmission it is perfect. However I was told that my transmission wear was from downshifting at too high an RPM. (I love to hear my pipes cackle back). Now to me it sounds like money. Good luck

    Leave a comment:


  • gordr
    replied
    Popping out of second gear may not be related to bellhousing alignment. When the transmission is in second gear, the components being coupled together are all part of the mainshaft stack. Misalignment between the input shaft gear and the sliding sleeve hub only affects third gear. If it pops out of third gear, bellhousing alignment is to be suspected. In the case of second gear, or first gear, worn parts would be my first thing to check.

    Leave a comment:


  • StudeRich
    replied
    You can NOT do the job with the Pressure Plate and Clutch Disk installed, on the Flywheel works.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeffry Cassel
    replied
    no. I always do it with the flywheel off and set dial indicator on end of crank. You'll want to check it both ways run -out (laterally) as well as being sure bell housing is parallel with the engine. Did you look at Bob Johnston's info site? I usually find helpful info there. I've never done it with engine in the vehicle but 'spose it could be done. Have you checked motor mounts? With the trouble you're having, I'd look there first. Easier fix! Check linkage bushings to--it might pop out 'cause it isn't fully engaged.

    Leave a comment:


  • 2R5 Bell Housing Alignment

    My 1949 2R5 truck does not have the original engine, and it pops out of second gear whenever the engine load on second gear is released while the clutch is not released. I believe I have learned from this forum that this is a sign of the bell housing not having been aligned to this engine when it was installed. The repair manual gives the instruction for installing a clutch before giving the instruction of installing the bell housing, but it is not clear to me whether the clutch is installed or not while making this alignment. There are instructions on this forum on how to make this alignment, but the ones I found show the engine and bell housing out of the truck.

    Can this alignment be done with the engine still in the truck and the clutch still in the bell housing?

    Thanks.
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