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  • Buzzard
    replied
    Am I missing something?
    The Ebay ad states the can is EMPTY!
    I guess I should hang onto the cases of this product I have at home for future Studebaker motors.
    I also have some genuine General Motors Lead Additive which I have never found for sale anywhere.
    Bill

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  • bensherb
    replied
    Originally posted by 1inxs View Post
    "My GT Hawk and Avanti are both 10.25:1 and my 1953 Chevrolet Suburban is 11.5:1. I have researched the local airport and am going to see what is involved in filling up there. It is supposed to be as simple as pulling up to pump an fill. The fuel is Mogas 91 octane ethanol free and sells for $4.49 including taxes. The airport is only 4 miles from my house, so I will be a regular customer. Thanks for your input!"

    Wow, AV-gas is only 91 octane there? I just bought 91 octane at a local Shell station for $4.09 here in central CA. of all places. Not sure if it was ethanol free though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hawklover
    replied
    Originally posted by 1inxs View Post

    My GT Hawk and Avanti are both 10.25:1 and my 1953 Chevrolet Suburban is 11.5:1. I have researched the local airport and am going to see what is involved in filling up there. It is supposed to be as simple as pulling up to pump an fill. The fuel is Mogas 91 octane ethanol free and sells for $4.49 including taxes. The airport is only 4 miles from my house, so I will be a regular customer. Thanks for your input!
    It nice to live in Gods country:-)

    Leave a comment:


  • Hawklover
    replied
    Originally posted by Jeffry Cassel View Post
    Here 91 octane is recreational gas (no moonshine in it) That's all we have available. It what used to be called white gas. AvGas used to be available in 4 grades and color coded so you didn't get the wrong one. They ranged from 80/87 octane up to 120. Many cars in the 60's were high compression, high performance. Dad, in an effort to go cheap, put farm gas out of our tractor gas tank into a high compression V8 in our car. Pinged like crazy and eventually blew a hole through a piston. Didn't save him much money. An R1 would be at risk if not tuned for white gas. As I have said before, these old cars can not perform like they did on Sunoco 260 with this modern crap in the tank. Mine are all low enough compression that I do not have a problem with detonation. Most of you won't: just stay away from alcohol in your gas!
    Back in the 60's I utilized AMOCO lead free high test........the Avanti ran beautiful.........I remember contacting the research dept of the company and asked how a lead free product could do all that standard lead gas was capable of......all I remember of the letter was that I was told the TEL is replaced with "aromatics"....and the specifics were not possible due to trade secrets.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hawklover
    replied
    Originally posted by wittsend View Post
    This is an interesting topic. I did a little searching and can not find anything conclusive. That said this may be an argument regarding what is available in gasoline as sold from a station and an additive sold on the shelf. Everything I found regarding the ban of TEL related to its use AS SOLD IN gasoline. I also found statements that lead free fuel still contains marginal amounts of lead.

    Perhaps this comes down to Fat Free and Alcohol Free products scenarios. As I understand it if the food product is less than .5 grams fat per serving or .5% alcohol it is deemed free of those aspects. So, it is at least conceivable that TEL is available but it is intended to be mixed in ratios that keep it under the cut off point to be deemed "free" of TEL. I'm not stating that as fact, simply plausible. The Wild Bill's Corvette site does state specifically that TEL is in the product. Perhaps in the ratios stated for "Intended Use" it sits below the threshold. That said, (wink-wink) people mix it to their satisfaction.
    15 years of loving the product......years ago I wanted to poke some fun at rabid "tree-hugers" at local car shows.........I had bumper stickers made that said..."my exhaust pipes are a beautiful powder gray color.......ask me why"
    I add one oz of the "snake oil" for every gallon.......I have found via empirical testing that I can go every second fill up and add product. I estimate I am making about 96 RM/2 TEL octane

    Leave a comment:


  • 1inxs
    replied
    Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
    I am confused. Isn't 91 octane premium pump gas in Utah. If so, why go to the airport. Here at sea level, premium is 93 octane. Non-ethanol gas is 91.
    Utah Premium is 91 octane, although ethanol free is 87 or 88 octane. To get 91 ethanol free would require filling up at the airports.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1inxs
    replied
    Originally posted by Lynn View Post
    I would think you would be able to get by with 91 octane on the Avanti if the quench is tight. Even if not, you could probably make do by backing the timing off a bit in hot weather; but then you lose some performance. Even if you don't back off the timing, I would guess that maybe 3 or 4 to 1 ratio (4 parts 91 to 1 part 100LL) would do the trick.
    Need to see some pics of that Suburban!! I love the old trucks and truck based vehicles.

    I CAN pull my car up to the pump here, but normally don't. The pump has no auto shut off (I know.... kind of wierd, but it is what it is). The other weird thing is that before I start pumping, I have to choose the AMOUNT I want, either in dollars or gallons. Who knows EXACTLY how much the car is going to take. I normally take a 5 gallon plastic gas can and fill it up each trip. I put some in the recreational gas can for the string trimmer, and the rest goes in the Z/28.
    If this isn’t allowed, please remove!
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  • Jeffry Cassel
    replied
    Here 91 octane is recreational gas (no moonshine in it) That's all we have available. It what used to be called white gas. AvGas used to be available in 4 grades and color coded so you didn't get the wrong one. They ranged from 80/87 octane up to 120. Many cars in the 60's were high compression, high performance. Dad, in an effort to go cheap, put farm gas out of our tractor gas tank into a high compression V8 in our car. Pinged like crazy and eventually blew a hole through a piston. Didn't save him much money. An R1 would be at risk if not tuned for white gas. As I have said before, these old cars can not perform like they did on Sunoco 260 with this modern crap in the tank. Mine are all low enough compression that I do not have a problem with detonation. Most of you won't: just stay away from alcohol in your gas!

    Leave a comment:


  • 64studeavanti
    replied
    I am confused. Isn't 91 octane premium pump gas in Utah. If so, why go to the airport. Here at sea level, premium is 93 octane. Non-ethanol gas is 91.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lynn
    replied
    I would think you would be able to get by with 91 octane on the Avanti if the quench is tight. Even if not, you could probably make do by backing the timing off a bit in hot weather; but then you lose some performance. Even if you don't back off the timing, I would guess that maybe 3 or 4 to 1 ratio (4 parts 91 to 1 part 100LL) would do the trick.
    Need to see some pics of that Suburban!! I love the old trucks and truck based vehicles.

    I CAN pull my car up to the pump here, but normally don't. The pump has no auto shut off (I know.... kind of wierd, but it is what it is). The other weird thing is that before I start pumping, I have to choose the AMOUNT I want, either in dollars or gallons. Who knows EXACTLY how much the car is going to take. I normally take a 5 gallon plastic gas can and fill it up each trip. I put some in the recreational gas can for the string trimmer, and the rest goes in the Z/28.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1inxs
    replied
    Originally posted by Lynn View Post
    Laugh about airports if you want. Many of us live close to a small municipal airport; me included. LL100 aviation fuel is all I use in my lawn mower (or did... I don't have a gas burning lawn mower any longer) and string trimmer and chain saw and concrete saw. It has an almost infinite shelf life compared to the stuff at the pump, especially if the stuff at the pump has ethanol.

    As long as it is available, I also put it in one of my cars that happens to have 11.5:1 compression. I run about 1/2 LL100 and 91 octane ethanol free. I can't make it ping, even if I bump the timing up a bit. I get it; some of us can't get aviation fuel. Read on; even though this is about my experience with chevy motors, I believe the same principles will work on a Studebaker. They work on my 1.1 liter Opel GT.

    I don't know what the ACTUAL compression ratio is in the OP's ride. Just telling me "R1" on a rebuilt engine doesn't specify actual CR. But I will say this: on my 68 El Camino, with a TRUE measured 10.65:1 compression, I run 91 octane 100% gasoline, and it NEVER pings even in 106 degree heat with a load. There are three things that contribute to this. 1. When building ANY engine, I get the quench as tight as I dare. On a 4 inch bore (technically 4.030 in this case) that means .034". I know that is tighter than most recommend, which leads me to #2. The piston to wall clearance must be on the tight side of the piston manufacturer's specs, so the piston will not rock in the cylinder. And 3. curve the distributor correctly for modern clearances and fuels. I like to have 10 degrees initial, and on a small block chevy, 36 total of initial and mechanical advance. Some engines with aluminum heads will actually do better at 34, but the old stock cast iron heads really run well at 36. I set the curve myself with advance starting slowly at 1400 rpm and increasing gradually to the max at 3000 rpm. I don't know what an R1 will run best at, but I can guarantee there is an optimal amount of total (initial and mechanical) spark. Find it and work from there.
    I limit vacuum advance to 15 degrees and plug the vac pot into full manifold vacuum, not "ported spark" vacuum on the carb. This gives 51 degrees of advance when cruising above 3000 rpm. However, I rarely cruise that rpm in the El Camino. With my 3.31 rear and an OD trans, I am at about 1850 rpm at 70 mph. Believe it or not, even with the Quadrajet, I can get as much as 24 mpg on the highway at a steady 70 mph.

    No reason you can't build a Studebaker engine using the same principles. Close tolerances on piston to wall, tight quench; and curve the distributor correctly for the combination. OH, and if my El Camino DID ping slightly say while going up a hill, there is an easy fix. Slow down the curve in the distributor by using a slightly stronger spring. I just never had to.

    As stated above, I gave up on the Torco. If anyone wants the 3 or 4 gallons I have left, you are welcome to it. Just can't ship it.
    My GT Hawk and Avanti are both 10.25:1 and my 1953 Chevrolet Suburban is 11.5:1. I have researched the local airport and am going to see what is involved in filling up there. It is supposed to be as simple as pulling up to pump an fill. The fuel is Mogas 91 octane ethanol free and sells for $4.49 including taxes. The airport is only 4 miles from my house, so I will be a regular customer. Thanks for your input!
    Last edited by 1inxs; 03-09-2020, 05:58 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeffry Cassel
    replied
    They are all pretty much snakeoil. You can buy tetraethyllead but it would likely be prohibitively expensive and using it off and on would be a bad idea. The best additive is probably a quart of diesel fuel per every 10 gal. gas. It reduces detonation, reduces volatility, and provides some upper cylinder lubrication. There is not as much lead in 100LL av. gas as there was in Sunoco 260. (100LL has 4 grams lead per gal) In 40 years in the medical field I never once diagnosed or treated anyone with lead poisoning. ( You would think it would be possible to delete an inadvertant duplication)
    Last edited by Jeffry Cassel; 03-07-2020, 08:35 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeffry Cassel
    replied
    They are all pretty much snakeoil. You can buy tetraethyllead but it would likely be prohibitively expensive and using it off and on would be a bad idea. The best additive is probably a quart of diesel fuel per every 10 gal. gas. It reduces detonation, reduces volatility, and provides some upper cylinder lubrication. There is not as much lead in 100LL av. gas as there was in Sunoco 260. (100LL has 4 grams lead per gal) In 40 years in the medical field I never once diagnosed or treated anyone with lead poisoning.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lynn
    replied
    Laugh about airports if you want. Many of us live close to a small municipal airport; me included. LL100 aviation fuel is all I use in my lawn mower (or did... I don't have a gas burning lawn mower any longer) and string trimmer and chain saw and concrete saw. It has an almost infinite shelf life compared to the stuff at the pump, especially if the stuff at the pump has ethanol.

    As long as it is available, I also put it in one of my cars that happens to have 11.5:1 compression. I run about 1/2 LL100 and 91 octane ethanol free. I can't make it ping, even if I bump the timing up a bit. I get it; some of us can't get aviation fuel. Read on; even though this is about my experience with chevy motors, I believe the same principles will work on a Studebaker. They work on my 1.1 liter Opel GT.

    I don't know what the ACTUAL compression ratio is in the OP's ride. Just telling me "R1" on a rebuilt engine doesn't specify actual CR. But I will say this: on my 68 El Camino, with a TRUE measured 10.65:1 compression, I run 91 octane 100% gasoline, and it NEVER pings even in 106 degree heat with a load. There are three things that contribute to this. 1. When building ANY engine, I get the quench as tight as I dare. On a 4 inch bore (technically 4.030 in this case) that means .034". I know that is tighter than most recommend, which leads me to #2. The piston to wall clearance must be on the tight side of the piston manufacturer's specs, so the piston will not rock in the cylinder. And 3. curve the distributor correctly for modern clearances and fuels. I like to have 10 degrees initial, and on a small block chevy, 36 total of initial and mechanical advance. Some engines with aluminum heads will actually do better at 34, but the old stock cast iron heads really run well at 36. I set the curve myself with advance starting slowly at 1400 rpm and increasing gradually to the max at 3000 rpm. I don't know what an R1 will run best at, but I can guarantee there is an optimal amount of total (initial and mechanical) spark. Find it and work from there.
    I limit vacuum advance to 15 degrees and plug the vac pot into full manifold vacuum, not "ported spark" vacuum on the carb. This gives 51 degrees of advance when cruising above 3000 rpm. However, I rarely cruise that rpm in the El Camino. With my 3.31 rear and an OD trans, I am at about 1850 rpm at 70 mph. Believe it or not, even with the Quadrajet, I can get as much as 24 mpg on the highway at a steady 70 mph.

    No reason you can't build a Studebaker engine using the same principles. Close tolerances on piston to wall, tight quench; and curve the distributor correctly for the combination. OH, and if my El Camino DID ping slightly say while going up a hill, there is an easy fix. Slow down the curve in the distributor by using a slightly stronger spring. I just never had to.

    As stated above, I gave up on the Torco. If anyone wants the 3 or 4 gallons I have left, you are welcome to it. Just can't ship it.

    Leave a comment:


  • wittsend
    replied
    This is an interesting topic. I did a little searching and can not find anything conclusive. That said this may be an argument regarding what is available in gasoline as sold from a station and an additive sold on the shelf. Everything I found regarding the ban of TEL related to its use AS SOLD IN gasoline. I also found statements that lead free fuel still contains marginal amounts of lead.

    Perhaps this comes down to Fat Free and Alcohol Free products scenarios. As I understand it if the food product is less than .5 grams fat per serving or .5% alcohol it is deemed free of those aspects. So, it is at least conceivable that TEL is available but it is intended to be mixed in ratios that keep it under the cut off point to be deemed "free" of TEL. I'm not stating that as fact, simply plausible. The Wild Bill's Corvette site does state specifically that TEL is in the product. Perhaps in the ratios stated for "Intended Use" it sits below the threshold. That said, (wink-wink) people mix it to their satisfaction.

    Leave a comment:

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