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  • Engine: Bearing prep for compression test?

    We'd like to do a compression check on the 259 in our Champ pickup, using the starter. We have at this point not done any work on the engine. Other than pulled the sparkplugs and carb. This engine has probably not started in 40+ years, so maybe the bearings could be dry? What's a good procedure for ensuring the bearings get oil before doing a compression check?

    We drained the oil that was in it, and it had, maybe a quarter cup of water that poured out soon as I pulled the drain plug. We plan to replace the oil, but thought maybe asking about the bearings before we did anything first.

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Last edited by ChampCouple; 02-10-2020, 04:15 PM.
    Mike and Dawn

    '61 Champ

  • #2
    (opinion)
    Fresh 'break in' oil (Amsoil makes goos stuff.. Lots of ZDDP)
    Pull your distributor. Use a homemade oil pump drill motor drive shaft.
    Spin the oil pump to build pressure with the new oil (to displace any water hiding in there).
    Re-install the distributor (you did mark it before pulling it out, right?).
    Lube up all your valve springs and valve guides.
    Fire it up. Check your dwell (changing dwell changes the timing). Check your timing (vac hose pulled and plugged).
    Set your timing. Adjust your carb. Warm it all the way up. Retorque your head bolts. Let it cool off. Re-set your valve lash. Then do your compression check.
    Check everything once more. Warm it up, check for leaks. Drive it with impunity.....
    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff


    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

    Comment


    • #3

      First of ALL, put at least 5 Qt. of Oil in the Pan, 10/30, 20, Wt. but no Lighter than 10 Wt. is good.
      Usually it is the Cylinder Walls vs Cast Iron Piston Rings that will be Rusted to each other and the Valves to the Valve Guides.
      The Rods and Mains should still have oil residue on them and as soon as it gets cranking, Oil Pressure will go first, directly to them.

      To prevent damage, you remove the Valve Covers, use a pump Oil Can and Oil the Valve Stems, and use a short, small plastic hose on the Oil Can to pump about 2 Tablespoons or more of Marvel Mystery Oil, ATF , or other Penetrating Oil at the INBOARD Top center of each Cylinder to soak the Rings before Turning the Engine, soak overnight or a Day at least.

      You need to know that all Valves are free, so you can use a Brass or Plastic Hammer to Tap the Valve end of the Rocker Arms to tell if the Valves can move. If this is not done before turning the engine over, the Push Rods will be bent.

      When you do get it turning, leave the Valve Covers OFF to determine if there is Oil coming out of all 16 Rocker Arms and you will know that the Complete Engine and all Bearings have been Oiled as much as possible.
      Only THEN can it be Started.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner
      SDC Member Since 1967

      Comment


      • #4
        There are several points where problems can occur in an engine sitting forty years.

        1. Most likely, there are some stuck valves and it will bend pushrods if you try to turn it over. Remove the rocker covers and the bolts holding down the rocker arms and remove them. Squirt oil on each valve stem where it enters the guide. Whack each valve on the top with a brass hammer. The valve should move down when struck and spring back. If, by some miracle, all are moving, replace the rocker arms.
        2. Pour five quarts of the cheapest 10-30 oil in the fill spout. Remove the distributor and examine the drive tang. You'll want to make a long 1/2" shaft with that same shape on one end and drive the other end counterclockwise with a slow speed 1/2" drill motor. This should bring up the oil pressure. Then you can turn the motor over by hand.

        BTW, a compression test on a motor sitting for forty years is inconclusive at best. There will be stuck piston rings and rusty cylinder walls. Consider doing all of the above, then getting it running. A few heat and cold cycles might free up the stuck rings.

        jack vines
        PackardV8

        Comment


        • #5
          (What Jack said...)
          HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

          Jeff


          Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



          Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

          Comment


          • #6
            Unbelievable! A THREE WAY Tie! 5:40 PM each.

            After reading all 3, you should have a good idea of what is needed, I just forgot the Reversible 3/8" or larger Drill trick (the Distributor and Oil pump turn COUNTERCLOCKWISE) but all 3 of us have some good points.

            Jack had a good thought about the Compression Test not being a Priority at this point, maybe later after it has run.

            We are all just here to Help.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner
            SDC Member Since 1967

            Comment


            • #7
              Oil Pressure Is KING....

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for all the input, very much appreciated!

                Mike
                Mike and Dawn

                '61 Champ

                Comment


                • #9
                  In my younger days I started engines without the above precautions and regretted it later. I had a fairly low miles 52 Cad motor which I just unstuck and started up. Too bad the rocker shafts were full of dirt so I ended up doing a full rebuild, perhaps it would have needed it in any case but the dirt in the rocker shaft was really a bad deal. Of course the stude v8 is a virtual clone of the Caddy motor.
                  Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by t walgamuth View Post
                    In my younger days I started engines without the above precautions and regretted it later. I had a fairly low miles 52 Cad motor which I just unstuck and started up. Too bad the rocker shafts were full of dirt so I ended up doing a full rebuild, perhaps it would have needed it in any case but the dirt in the rocker shaft was really a bad deal. Of course the stude v8 is a virtual clone of the Caddy motor.
                    Oh bummer. Guess it really pays to be safer than possibly sorry with low production engines.
                    Mike and Dawn

                    '61 Champ

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by t walgamuth View Post
                      In my younger days I started engines without the above precautions and regretted it later. I had a fairly low miles 52 Cad motor which I just unstuck and started up. Too bad the rocker shafts were full of dirt so I ended up doing a full rebuild, perhaps it would have needed it in any case but the dirt in the rocker shaft was really a bad deal. Of course the stude v8 is a virtual clone of the Caddy motor.
                      All old-school rocker shaft engines which oil through the rockers, the inside of the shaft will be filled with crud.

                      FWIW, we're currently rebuilding a Studebaker V8 which the owner "freshened" himself. He soaked the rocker assemblies in solvent and was proud of how clean it was. But he only cleaned the outside; since he didn't disassemble them, when he ran it, trash from inside the shaft and the rockers took out the bearings.

                      To get Studebaker rocker assemblies clean, it all must be disassembled, the soft plugs in the ends of the shafts removed and the interior rodded out with a steel brush. Then, on the early rockers, those with the wasp-waist screws, must be baked in a 600-degree oven to burn the carbon. Even after this treatment some of the screws will break because the carbon is so packed in there. The later rockers don't have that carbon trapping wasp-waist design, so don't have to have the screws removed.

                      jack vines
                      PackardV8

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Even though there has been much talk here about Early, Earlier and Newer Rocker Arms and Shafts, and different types of Lock Screws, I do not remember ever hearing THIS Term: "Wasp-waist" ??

                        Is it the type of Lock Screw, it's shape or what?

                        Would they only be the Really Old ones, '51 to '54?
                        StudeRich
                        Second Generation Stude Driver,
                        Proud '54 Starliner Owner
                        SDC Member Since 1967

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Probably pre 62 adj. screw. just found several hands full while cleaning shop. they are for the lo oiler rocker arms. these were NOS discards, the box had fallen apart. Luck Doofus

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Studebaker V8s had at least three and maybe four different types of rocker adjusting screws
                            Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                            Even though there has been much talk here about Early, Earlier and Newer Rocker Arms and Shafts, and different types of Lock Screws, I do not remember ever hearing THIS Term: "Wasp-waist" ??


                            The very narrow "wasp-waist" oil passage section between the two threaded sections will trap crud and when it cruds up sufficient to stop oil flow, the unlubricated rocker arm can then run hot enough to turn the crud to hard carbon. Locked up by hard carbon, the screw will be hard enough to turn, sometimes even adjusting the valves will twist the screw in half.

                            That's why they must be baked to burn out some of the carbon before removing the screws to clean them. Even with the best technique, we seldom get a set of sixteen of those to all come out without twisting off at least one.

                            jack vines

                            PackardV8

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We pulled the plugs, shot lube in the cylinders, and made a little rod to drive the oil pump. The oil pump worked with the rod and drill motor, as we were getting oil to the oil filter canister, and some of the pushrods. That's where the luck ended. With a three foot cheater bar on the crankshaft nut, we could not budge the crankshaft to turn. Transmission was in neutral.
                              Mike and Dawn

                              '61 Champ

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