Announcement

Collapse

Get more Tips, Specs and Technical Data!

Did you know... this Forum is a service of the Studebaker Drivers Club? For more technical tips, specifications, history and tech data, visit the Tech Tips page at the SDC Homepage: www.studebakerdriversclub.com/tips.asp
See more
See less

Engine miss after overheating

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Engine: Engine miss after overheating

    I'm sure before you even got by the title you were thinking blown head gasket (BTW, 350 SBC engine in my Daytona). I did too. Recently I drove approximately 5 miles on a cool morning to Cars & Coffee. When I parked I noticed steam coming from under the hood. I assumed it was overflow as I had just topped off the radiator the day before and don't have a catch can.

    When I went to leave the engine seemed a bit rough and within 5 minutes was pushing the halfway point on the gauge (normal is about a quarter of the way). I stopped, called AAA and got transported home. I would say the overheating time was minimal. Eventually I found a small hole in the radiator near the bottom tank which I have since fixed.

    So, here is what I have tested regarding the rough running and the results:

    1. Compression on all the cylinders is in the 180-190 range.

    2. There is no oil in the water and no water in the oil. There is no water condensed on the oil filler cap.

    3. There is no blow by at the oil filler cap (which could have indicated an internal leak).

    4. None of the spark plugs show coolant.

    5. There is no water coming out of the tailpipe even holding a plate to see if there is condensation.

    6. There is no ticking sound at the valves.

    7. Removing the spark plug wires individually indicates I'm not getting contribution from cylinders #5 and #8 which are on opposing banks (thus indicating there is not a bad head gasket between cylinders).

    So far I see no indication I have a blown head gasket (or cracked head).

    8. The plug wires on #5 and #8 were replaced with no change. The spark plugs were swapped (with known good cylinders) with no change. The coil was swapped for a known good Accel strong spark coil with no change.

    9. I ran external plugs to the #5 and #6 wires and saw a seemingly weak spark. It was daylight and hard to discern.

    10. The cap and rotor are clean and show no cracks.

    11. I have a Pertronix I ignition unit. And, strangely, the two cylinders that do not seem to be firing..., they are 180 degrees of each other in the firing order. Coincidence? The Pertronix uses a plastic ring imbedded with magnets suspended from bottom of the large GM rotor. There is a specific gap between the the magnets and the rotor and I set them to the specification with shim washers when I initially set the Pertronix up.

    Anyway, I get no indication of a cracked head or blown head gasket (or stuck valves) based of test 1-7. I have 6 of the 8 cylinders firing properly and the oddity that those cylinders not showing any contribution to the engine are 180 degrees apart on opposing banks. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by wittsend; 11-27-2019, 01:28 PM.
    '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

  • #2
    It's unlikely such minor overheating for such a short time caused a mechanical failure on cylinders on opposite banks 180-degrees apart. You've got compression, so it's not a stuck or burned valve or collapsed rings.

    You've swapped spark plugs and wires, so swapping the distributor and then the coil are the next steps.

    I ran external plugs to the #5 and #6 wires and saw a seemingly weak spark. It was daylight and hard to discern.
    It's possible for plugs to fire in the open air and the spark not be sufficiently strong to jump a gap when cranking compression is 190 PSI.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

    Comment


    • #3
      What about a Warped Intake Manifold?
      Two opposing Cylinders indicates the same Location front to Rear on the Manifold has a Leaking Gasket or surface.
      Is it Aluminum? Spray some Propane or WD-40 on the Intake Ports.

      If that doesn't make sense or work on a GM Engine, replace the "Whatever" Distributor with a Known Good, complete Delco, Delcotron Electronic Distributor or Clone.
      Last edited by StudeRich; 11-27-2019, 02:47 PM.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

      Comment


      • #4
        The dead cylinders are on opposing BANKS. The #5 is the third back on the drivers side and the #8 is fourth back on the passengers side. Between them is about 10"-12" of aluminum intake. So, I'm, doubting it is a warped intake.

        At this point I'm more inclined to try the distributor first. I'll remove the Pertronix and try a set of points. With the holidays it may be awhile before I report back. These SBC's ('85 Corvette engine) have I believe a .021 steel gasket that I would imagine it has little "give" to it. Time will tell. Hopefully points will correct the problem. I am at least encourage by my test that there is no head gasket/ crack head showing.

        That said, years ago I had a Datsun 510. I heard a soft boom 'sound' and it was within a minute I noticed the temp gage rising. I immediately pulled off the freeway and found that my nearly new lower radiator hose had blown a hole near the radiator. With not more than a screwdriver on me I folded the hose back at the torn hole, stretched and slipped it back on the radiator and clamped it. I trickled water in and got home but within a week the head gasket showed its dislike for heat. So, it does happen. I just started on my 24 year sitting Corvair station wagon as a "winter filler" project. I'm not looking for another.

        Thanks.
        Last edited by wittsend; 11-27-2019, 03:14 PM.
        '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

        Comment


        • #5
          At least with the Corvair you do not have to worry about coolant problems (possibly cooling problems).

          EDIT: If you are referring to a Lakewood, my sister had one of those for years.
          Gary L.
          Wappinger, NY

          SDC member since 1968
          Studebaker enthusiast much longer

          Comment


          • #6
            Oftentimes, defective distributor caps are hard to see with the naked eye. To test, "walk" the wires around by two positions, and see if the miss transfers to other cylinders, two positions later in the firing order. Only takes about five minutes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wittsend View Post
              The dead cylinders are on opposing BANKS. The #5 is the third back on the drivers side and the #8 is fourth back on the passengers side. Between them is about 10"-12" of aluminum intake. So, I'm, doubting it is a warped intake.
              Since #5&8 cylinders get their fuel from the same part of the carburator (assuming you have a dual plain intake manifold) I put my money it being a vacuum leak.
              Jerry Forrester
              Forrester's Chrome
              Douglasville, Georgia

              See all of Buttercup's pictures at https://imgur.com/a/tBjGzTk

              Comment


              • #8
                Here is a tool to deal with issues such as this. It quickly found the frustrating intermittent miss in the Golden Hawk. The GTC505
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CR3s1jt3iw I paid about $250 but a search will find lower prices.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 5brown1 View Post
                  Here is a tool to deal with issues such as this. It quickly found the frustrating intermittent miss in the Golden Hawk. The GTC505
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CR3s1jt3iw I paid about $250 but a search will find lower prices.
                  Perhaps I am missing something. Looks like all this does is isolate misfire to specific cylinder(s), which may be handy for intermittent misfires. But the OP's misfire is not intermittent, and he has already determined which cylinders via other methods. He could also determent intermittent misfires, as your tool does, with a timing light moved to each plug wire. What is the added value of this (expensive) modern tool on a Studebaker?
                  Last edited by JoeHall; 11-28-2019, 05:56 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JoeHall View Post
                    Oftentimes, defective distributor caps are hard to see with the naked eye. To test, "walk" the wires around by two positions, and see if the miss transfers to other cylinders, two positions later in the firing order. Only takes about five minutes.
                    Would you expand on this please? I am having a hard time picturing it. Can the distributor be turned/rotated far enough to move two complete hole positions? That's 45 degrees.
                    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RadioRoy View Post

                      Would you expand on this please? I am having a hard time picturing it. Can the distributor be turned/rotated far enough to move two complete hole positions? That's 45 degrees.
                      Not turning the distributor, just shifting the plug wires, two towers in either direction, CCW or CW. (Be careful to maintain proper firing order.) Afterward, if the misfiring cylinders have also moved in same direction, it's likely the cap.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JoeHall View Post

                        Not turning the distributor, just shifting the plug wires, two towers in either direction, CCW or CW. (Be careful to maintain proper firing order.) Afterward, if the misfiring cylinders have also moved in same direction, it's likely the cap.
                        If you shift the plug wires two places in the cap, the engine will not run - unless you either turn the distributor 45 degrees as well, or move all the wire ends at the plugs.

                        Am I misunderstanding something?
                        Last edited by RadioRoy; 11-28-2019, 02:59 PM.
                        RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                        17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                        10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                        10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                        4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                        5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                        56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                        60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RadioRoy View Post

                          If you shift the plug wires two places in the cap, the engine will not run - unless you either turn the distributor 45 degrees as well, or move all the wire ends at the plugs.

                          Am I misunderstanding something?
                          OK, turning the distributor too, to reposition #1, but no problem, it will rotate enough. Might wind up with the VA up against the firewall, but still no problem.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JoeHall View Post

                            OK, turning the distributor too, to reposition #1, but no problem, it will rotate enough. Might wind up with the VA up against the firewall, but still no problem.
                            OK, that makes sense. Thanks.
                            RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                            17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                            10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                            10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                            4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                            5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                            56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                            60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am also thinking warped intake manifold, but I'd also change the oil.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X