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Drum to Disc system switch - 60's cars

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  • Kenmike2
    replied
    The original Avanti brakes were "balanced" front to rear via using the truck type anchored shoes on the rear wheels instead of the self-actuating floating type car shoes. (along with smaller bore wheel cylinders on the rears). If you just put on front disks without chanjing out the rear backing plates and shoes, you'll end up needing a proportioning valve to Re-balance the braking force between front and rear.
    Go with a Turner kit. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches. I installed one 11 years ago and haven't touched the brakes in about 90,000 miles since.

    Leave a comment:


  • grobb284
    replied
    quote:I dont understand the question on the
    stock Stude wheel, I posted the weight above : 52 pounds.
    I'm sorry Tom, missed that.

    By the way those dimensions and weights are from my car, not second guessing your (Tom's) weights and dimensions.

    Best regards,
    Gene

    Leave a comment:


  • sbca96
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by PackardV8
    Does anyone have a 4.5" and a 5" Studebaker wheel to weigh for us?
    quote:Originally posted by grobb284

    What is the Studebaker Avanti rotor weight?
    Does a 15" Avanti steel rim and 6.75 x 15 tire weigh nearly 50# as discussed?
    I am willing to bet that the stock Stude rotor is considerably lighter
    than the 13" Cobra rotor, I can check when I get home tonight, I can
    also weigh the stock caliper. I dont understand the question on the
    stock Stude wheel, I posted the weight above : 52 pounds.

    Tom

    quote:Originally posted by sbca96

    The stock 15 inch steel Stude wheel weighed 52 pounds with a 78 tire!

    Leave a comment:


  • sbca96
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by PackardV8
    Does anyone have a 4.5" and a 5" Studebaker wheel to weigh for us?
    quote:Originally posted by grobb284

    What is the Studebaker Avanti rotor weight?
    Does a 15" Avanti steel rim and 6.75 x 15 tire weigh nearly 50# as discussed?
    I am willing to bet that the stock Stude rotor is considerably lighter
    than the 13" Cobra rotor, I can check when I get home tonight, I can
    also weigh the stock caliper. I dont understand the question on the
    stock Stude wheel, I posted the weight above : 52 pounds.

    Tom

    quote:Originally posted by sbca96

    The stock 15 inch steel Stude wheel weighed 52 pounds with a 78 tire!

    Leave a comment:


  • grobb284
    replied
    Even with magnesium wheels there is not a great weight savings
    rim, 17 x 8.5, 17.5#; tire, 235/50/17, 27#; 44.5#/front wheel & tire
    rim, 18 x 9.5, 19.5#; tire, 255/45/18, 30#; 49.5#/rear wheel & tire

    rotor weight: 19# for 13" diameter (12.795), 1.260 thick, vented

    Just out of curiosity, checked what the bores were on the dual piston calipers: 1-9/16" dia x 2 pistons per caliper = 3.835 sq inches --- Front Pistons

    What is the Studebaker Avanti rotor weight?

    Does a 15" Avanti steel rim and 6.75 x 15 tire weigh nearly 50# as discussed?

    Bore size on the Studebaker Avanti caliper?

    Leave a comment:


  • PackardV8
    replied
    Hi, Tom,

    Thanks for the weight comparison. I should have clarified the heavier wheels to which I was referring were the commonly used 6" steel Ford and MoPar upgrades.

    I no longer have any Studebaker wheels but do have the Ford 6". Does anyone have a 4.5" and a 5" Studebaker wheel to weigh for us? This would be a good thing to have for future searches when one is considering a wheel swap.

    thnx, jack vines

    PackardV8

    Leave a comment:


  • sbca96
    replied
    I have used Stude disc brake brackets on a drum brake spindle, they
    fit just fine, the Stude bracket actually has three separate cast in
    spacers that fit into the counter bores on the drum spindle.

    A harder Stude pad compound will wear your expensive Stude rotor a
    lot faster, so you pay to play. Instead of replacing pads often you
    end up replacing your rotor sooner. Harder pads also require more
    pedal pressure.

    I already covered the wheel weight debate, and ride harshness is due
    to lower profile tire. You cant expect a 45 series tire to absorb a
    pothole like a 75 series ballon tire with half the sidewall thickness.

    For those that missed the weight post : The aftermarket wheels I got
    from AFS (17 x 8) are known to be strong and heavy, but they only
    weighed 50 pounds each with the 245/45R17 tires. The stock 15 inch
    steel Stude wheel weighed 52 pounds with a 78 tire! There are much
    less weight wheels out there than the AFS, I believe that a factory
    Cobra wheel weighs less even (and is an inch wider).

    Rear discs are not really required, though with aftermarket wheels you
    might not want that ugly rusted drum showing through.

    Wheel clearance with my setups is easy to check, since its relationship
    is factory Ford, so if you want to see if your wheel will clear, just
    try them on a Mustang with the brakes you want.

    Tom

    Leave a comment:


  • N8N
    replied
    I knew you'd think so Dick, if I just shined it up (and then spent about $20K on a restoration) with those wheels my car would look about like the new-for-55 version of your old car

    I actually like the stock 53-55 wheel covers, but I've been experimenting with big fatty tires which don't play nice with a 5" wide wheel. That and I figure those drums need all the cooling they can get, so the stockers are right out.

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

    Leave a comment:


  • Dick Steinkamp
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by N8N

    Tom,

    I just got a set of Halibrand 5-spokes in the mail this week and I'm not really sure that they are any lighter than the stock Stude steel wheels. I bet you they are way stronger though.

    ...and WAY cooler looking! [8D]

    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Leave a comment:


  • N8N
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

    Nate is correct. The OEM Studebaker steel wheels are very light. This low unsprung weight is how they contribute to a good ride. This light weight is also the reason the wheel covers fly off or creep around the wheel. Stude wheels are too thin to support today's sticky radial tires.

    thnx, jack vines

    PackardV8
    I never really thought of that, but Studes really do ride well for their size/weight (well, if you consider "smooth" = "good." I personally prefer one with HD springs, the stock springs are actually too soft.) The only one I've driven that didn't have either stockers or mags on it is my current '55 which has very heavy MoPar cop car wheels on it. It rides a little harsh but then again it has HD springs front and rear. Maybe I ought to drive it and then immediately put the Halibrands on it and see if I notice a difference.

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

    Leave a comment:


  • PackardV8
    replied
    Nate is correct. The OEM Studebaker steel wheels are very light. This low unsprung weight is how they contribute to a good ride. This light weight is also the reason the wheel covers fly off or creep around the wheel. Stude wheels are too thin to support today's sticky radial tires.

    thnx, jack vines

    PackardV8

    Leave a comment:


  • 1962larksedan
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

    FWIW, Agree with David on most of his points. I've done brakes many different ways on modified cars. Here's what I have found:

    1. The Studebaker OEM Dunlop system functions better than most in normal driving. As David said, it does need a bit more care and maintenance than some aftermarket systems.
    2. The larger ventilated rotors used on some systems will stop shorter and won't warp in harder driving. However, add those lumps of iron and wider, heavier wheels and there will be a noticeable deterioration in ride and impact harshness. Those who've spent a bunch of money on brakes, tires and wheels usually won't admit it, but drive an original Avanti with small radials back-to-back with a big disc, wide wheel, big tire modification. The ride does change.
    3. I've got Wilwood rear disc brakes on the Dana 44 in my modified Hawk just to match the big Wilwoods up front. However, on an Avanti, the rear brakes contribute 20% or less on a hard stop - due to the nose heavy design and weight transfer on braking the rear tires are barely touching the ground. More braking back there will just lock the wheels. This is why Studebaker went to non-self-energizing rear brakes on the Avanti. Bottom line, I've not found rear discs to be necessary nor cost effective on an Avanti.

    (BTW, I've got a set of rear disc brackets for a Ford 9" available if you are going that way. E-mail [u]PackardV8@comcast.net</u> )

    thnx, jack vines


    PackardV8
    Good point there about the additional unsprung weight 'messing things up'.

    Much along the old adage that a chain is no stronger than its weakest link.

    Things happen for a reason

    Leave a comment:


  • N8N
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Swifster

    quote:Originally posted by N8N

    Tom,

    I just got a set of Halibrand 5-spokes in the mail this week and I'm not really sure that they are any lighter than the stock Stude steel wheels. I bet you they are way stronger though.
    That would be disappointing. I thought magnesium was supposed to be stronger and lighter.
    They're new ones; I'm sure they're aluminum.

    Stock 4.5" Stude wheels are actually very light for pass. car wheels. I wish I had one here without a tire to throw on the scale...

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

    Leave a comment:


  • grobb284
    replied
    Phil Harris and Malcolm Berry's Corvette disc brake setup may require a little more work, but may be worth it. They installed it on their own cars, and are not really promoting it.

    I mention it only because I drove Phil's car, and was very impressed with the braking. When I was driving it, I had forgotten he had done the brake upgrade, and was so impressed, for I have not ever driven an Avanti that braked so well.

    Tom's Avanti may brake even better, from the information he has supplied. His are 13" brakes, and Malcolm's may be 12" or under.

    Tom, your idea of having people check caliper clearance by putting their wheel on an existing vehicle is good advice. Especially so if it is an aftermarket wheel.

    quote:then order Baer's 14 inch rotors and 6 piston calipers! Just select a
    94-04 Mustang when ordering. Though for those you will need to go
    at LEAST 17" wheels.
    Tom, you may need to go to 18" wheels minimum to run a 14" rotor. I'm running a thick 13" rotor, and my 17" wheel is just clearing. This is on a Corvette caliper.




    Leave a comment:


  • Swifster
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by N8N

    Tom,

    I just got a set of Halibrand 5-spokes in the mail this week and I'm not really sure that they are any lighter than the stock Stude steel wheels. I bet you they are way stronger though.
    That would be disappointing. I thought magnesium was supposed to be stronger and lighter.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tom - Mulberry, FL

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

    Leave a comment:

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