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Drum to Disc system switch - 60's cars

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  • #31
    quote:Originally posted by Alan

    Buddy, The brakes come off 62-72 Mopar B bodies and 70-74 E bodies. I had some friends that raced 70-71 Dodge Chargers on circle tracks and they would give me their take offs since they used 11 3/4" JFZ parts for racing. I did notice that the rotors and hubs were different between some models and the single piston calipers had some variations.
    We are talking about the early 80's so that has changed in the last 25 or 30 years. If you can get them free fine, otherwise buy them from Tom, or Turner.
    Be careful with the Mopar B and E bodies:

    1966-69 cars were 4 piston caliper
    1970-72 cars were single piston caliper but had the rotor you guys were looking for.
    1973-74 E bodies were different yet--------same spindles as 1973-76 A bodies (Darts/Valiants)

    Things happen for a reason
    --------------------------------------

    Sold my 1962; Studeless at the moment

    Borrowed Bams50's sigline here:

    "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

    Comment


    • #32
      quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

      You'll need the rear brakes - every bit of them. They're unique to the disc brake option. You'll need the booster/master cyl. unit and of course, the brake parts at the front wheels. The front spindles are unique as well and the wheels on disc brake cars are different too!

      Are you sure about the spindles being unique on disc brake cars? I was just reading about Turner Brake conversions and the statement was made (by Turner) that Studebaker spindles are the same from 1953 thru 1966?

      1957 Transtar 1/2ton
      1963 Cruiser
      1960 Larkvertible V8
      1958 Provincial wagon
      1953 Commander coupe
      1957 President two door

      Comment


      • #33
        They're basically the same, but I believe that there's another finishing step on the disc brake spindles because the caliper brackets bolted to the backside of the spindle so the bolt holes had to be spot faced. If you're not using *factory* disc brakes, I believe most aftermarket conversions are designed to work with drum brake spindles, and since they are basically the same they will also work on spindles originally equipped with factory disc brakes.

        nate

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        • #34
          The spindles have a flat area machined into the spindle where the caliper bracket attaches in place of the 3 counterbored bolt holes.

          You can in most cases use the unmachined spindle with the bracket or at worst with some cleanup. Of course you can also just machine the spindle to match the disk brake spindles.

          As far as stopping a properly functioning Avanti with the Dunlop/Bendix brakes as well as anything else. Back in 1963 one magazine recorded a 126 foot stop for an Avanti. The problem with the Stude disk brakes was a pad that was small resulting in fast wear, it would fade under hard braking, when the pad wore too much the piston hit a stop and with almost no warning you get no front brakes. I carried a set of spare brake pads with me all the time. I warped rotors a number of times years ago driving really hard on mountain roads with my 63 Hawk. I ended up with 66 Corvette front brakes that went along with the 66 Corvette rear suspension.

          For those that drive their cars everyday and tend to drive them hard I would recommend that you buy one of the kits to install different brakes. I would also recommend installing rear disks.

          David L
          David L

          Comment


          • #35
            FWIW, Agree with David on most of his points. I've done brakes many different ways on modified cars. Here's what I have found:

            1. The Studebaker OEM Dunlop system functions better than most in normal driving. As David said, it does need a bit more care and maintenance than some aftermarket systems.
            2. The larger ventilated rotors used on some systems will stop shorter and won't warp in harder driving. However, add those lumps of iron and wider, heavier wheels and there will be a noticeable deterioration in ride and impact harshness. Those who've spent a bunch of money on brakes, tires and wheels usually won't admit it, but drive an original Avanti with small radials back-to-back with a big disc, wide wheel, big tire modification. The ride does change.
            3. I've got Wilwood rear disc brakes on the Dana 44 in my modified Hawk just to match the big Wilwoods up front. However, on an Avanti, the rear brakes contribute 20% or less on a hard stop - due to the nose heavy design and weight transfer on braking the rear tires are barely touching the ground. More braking back there will just lock the wheels. This is why Studebaker went to non-self-energizing rear brakes on the Avanti. Bottom line, I've not found rear discs to be necessary nor cost effective on an Avanti.

            (BTW, I've got a set of rear disc brackets for a Ford 9" available if you are going that way. E-mail [u]PackardV8@comcast.net</u> )

            thnx, jack vines


            PackardV8
            PackardV8

            Comment


            • #36
              Pads can be ordered occording to the type of driving you do. Both Ferodo and Hawk make pads for street driving all the way to racecar performance pads. This can eliminate the fade. It can also increase the wear and the heat.

              My needs on the Commander will be trying to slow down a car doing 120 MPH in the 1/4 mile while allowing for standard type steel wheels (unless someone wants to give me a set of Hilibrand maggies, less unsprung weight). 17" wheels are not an option. I'm starting with the original Stude disks with different pads to start with and will move up to turners system if I feel the original brakes are not up to the need.

              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Tom - Mulberry, FL

              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

              Tom - Bradenton, FL

              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
              1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

              Comment


              • #37
                Tom,

                I just got a set of Halibrand 5-spokes in the mail this week and I'm not really sure that they are any lighter than the stock Stude steel wheels. I bet you they are way stronger though.

                nate

                --
                55 Commander Starlight
                http://members.cox.net/njnagel
                --
                55 Commander Starlight
                http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                Comment


                • #38
                  quote:Originally posted by N8N

                  Tom,

                  I just got a set of Halibrand 5-spokes in the mail this week and I'm not really sure that they are any lighter than the stock Stude steel wheels. I bet you they are way stronger though.
                  That would be disappointing. I thought magnesium was supposed to be stronger and lighter.

                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Tom - Mulberry, FL

                  1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

                  Tom - Bradenton, FL

                  1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                  1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Phil Harris and Malcolm Berry's Corvette disc brake setup may require a little more work, but may be worth it. They installed it on their own cars, and are not really promoting it.

                    I mention it only because I drove Phil's car, and was very impressed with the braking. When I was driving it, I had forgotten he had done the brake upgrade, and was so impressed, for I have not ever driven an Avanti that braked so well.

                    Tom's Avanti may brake even better, from the information he has supplied. His are 13" brakes, and Malcolm's may be 12" or under.

                    Tom, your idea of having people check caliper clearance by putting their wheel on an existing vehicle is good advice. Especially so if it is an aftermarket wheel.

                    quote:then order Baer's 14 inch rotors and 6 piston calipers! Just select a
                    94-04 Mustang when ordering. Though for those you will need to go
                    at LEAST 17" wheels.
                    Tom, you may need to go to 18" wheels minimum to run a 14" rotor. I'm running a thick 13" rotor, and my 17" wheel is just clearing. This is on a Corvette caliper.




                    sigpic 1963 Studebaker Avanti: LS1 motor and T-56 transmission have been moved rearward, set up as a two seat coupe with independent rear suspension. Complex solutions for nonexistant problems.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      quote:Originally posted by Swifster

                      quote:Originally posted by N8N

                      Tom,

                      I just got a set of Halibrand 5-spokes in the mail this week and I'm not really sure that they are any lighter than the stock Stude steel wheels. I bet you they are way stronger though.
                      That would be disappointing. I thought magnesium was supposed to be stronger and lighter.
                      They're new ones; I'm sure they're aluminum.

                      Stock 4.5" Stude wheels are actually very light for pass. car wheels. I wish I had one here without a tire to throw on the scale...

                      nate

                      --
                      55 Commander Starlight
                      http://members.cox.net/njnagel
                      --
                      55 Commander Starlight
                      http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

                        FWIW, Agree with David on most of his points. I've done brakes many different ways on modified cars. Here's what I have found:

                        1. The Studebaker OEM Dunlop system functions better than most in normal driving. As David said, it does need a bit more care and maintenance than some aftermarket systems.
                        2. The larger ventilated rotors used on some systems will stop shorter and won't warp in harder driving. However, add those lumps of iron and wider, heavier wheels and there will be a noticeable deterioration in ride and impact harshness. Those who've spent a bunch of money on brakes, tires and wheels usually won't admit it, but drive an original Avanti with small radials back-to-back with a big disc, wide wheel, big tire modification. The ride does change.
                        3. I've got Wilwood rear disc brakes on the Dana 44 in my modified Hawk just to match the big Wilwoods up front. However, on an Avanti, the rear brakes contribute 20% or less on a hard stop - due to the nose heavy design and weight transfer on braking the rear tires are barely touching the ground. More braking back there will just lock the wheels. This is why Studebaker went to non-self-energizing rear brakes on the Avanti. Bottom line, I've not found rear discs to be necessary nor cost effective on an Avanti.

                        (BTW, I've got a set of rear disc brackets for a Ford 9" available if you are going that way. E-mail [u]PackardV8@comcast.net</u> )

                        thnx, jack vines


                        PackardV8
                        Good point there about the additional unsprung weight 'messing things up'.

                        Much along the old adage that a chain is no stronger than its weakest link.

                        Things happen for a reason
                        --------------------------------------

                        Sold my 1962; Studeless at the moment

                        Borrowed Bams50's sigline here:

                        "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Nate is correct. The OEM Studebaker steel wheels are very light. This low unsprung weight is how they contribute to a good ride. This light weight is also the reason the wheel covers fly off or creep around the wheel. Stude wheels are too thin to support today's sticky radial tires.

                          thnx, jack vines

                          PackardV8
                          PackardV8

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

                            Nate is correct. The OEM Studebaker steel wheels are very light. This low unsprung weight is how they contribute to a good ride. This light weight is also the reason the wheel covers fly off or creep around the wheel. Stude wheels are too thin to support today's sticky radial tires.

                            thnx, jack vines

                            PackardV8
                            I never really thought of that, but Studes really do ride well for their size/weight (well, if you consider "smooth" = "good." I personally prefer one with HD springs, the stock springs are actually too soft.) The only one I've driven that didn't have either stockers or mags on it is my current '55 which has very heavy MoPar cop car wheels on it. It rides a little harsh but then again it has HD springs front and rear. Maybe I ought to drive it and then immediately put the Halibrands on it and see if I notice a difference.

                            nate

                            --
                            55 Commander Starlight
                            http://members.cox.net/njnagel
                            --
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                            http://members.cox.net/njnagel

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                            • #44
                              quote:Originally posted by N8N

                              Tom,

                              I just got a set of Halibrand 5-spokes in the mail this week and I'm not really sure that they are any lighter than the stock Stude steel wheels. I bet you they are way stronger though.

                              ...and WAY cooler looking! [8D]

                              Dick Steinkamp
                              Bellingham, WA

                              [IMG][/IMG]

                              Dick Steinkamp
                              Bellingham, WA

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                              • #45
                                I knew you'd think so Dick, if I just shined it up (and then spent about $20K on a restoration) with those wheels my car would look about like the new-for-55 version of your old car

                                I actually like the stock 53-55 wheel covers, but I've been experimenting with big fatty tires which don't play nice with a 5" wide wheel. That and I figure those drums need all the cooling they can get, so the stockers are right out.

                                nate

                                --
                                55 Commander Starlight
                                http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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