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  • Transmission / Overdrive: DG front pumps informations

    Hello,

    I'll be looking to repair / rebuild my DG-200 automatic transmission and I'm in need of informations regarding the front pump. since the tranny is in a 1954 Hudson Super Wasp ( I know, I know... it's quite odd), I'm truning toward you, the great experts of the DG 3 band auto. transmissions for guidance.

    What do I need in seals and o-rings ( or in parts ) in order to fix a leak between the torque converter and tranny and if where to find them ? Also does the front pump is of the same size between the different DG tranny, if not, what are differences ?

    Since my car will be stored for winter I was unlucky to find a tranny shop willing to fix it in my region, I've decided to try to learn it while trying to fix. I am aware that a transmission job isn't an easy one to take lightly, so I'll be taking my time to really repair it and learning it. Any advices from the experts in here are warmly welcome.

    Max





  • #2
    I'm sure there will be some folks who can supply some technical advice. I know Jerry Kurtz and others have rebuilt these.
    There was no service information on the DG200's in the early shop manuals, but a separate 63-page A/T Shop Manual was distributed in 1950.
    These show up fairly often on online auction sites and at swap meets. It would be a substantial introduction to procure one.

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    It does supply "a basic guide to the fundamentals of operation, maintenance and service." Including all the torque specifications and instructions for adjustments and test procedures for pump and band servo pressures, but may lack a few specific details you require.

    But if you can contact someone who has done it, using this as your guide, they may be able to provide that detailed assistance.

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by rockne10; 10-27-2019, 09:57 AM.
    "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

    Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
    Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
    '33 Rockne 10,
    '51 Commander Starlight,
    '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée",
    '56 Sky Hawk

    Comment


    • #3
      Every old transmission with lock up torque converters it's an absolute must to dial indicate the bell housing as close as you can get it. Due to the additional weight of the clutch and pressure plate and pistons inside the torque converter even a small misalignment will tear up the front pump bushing. Always replace the front pump bushing. Just replacing the seal often wont stop the leak if it is just wallowing around inside of it. If you have a good converter rebuild shop have them put a new hub on the converter too.
      Bez Auto Alchemy
      573-318-8948
      http://bezautoalchemy.com


      "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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      • #4
        First find the Hudson manual for the DG 200's, Faxon Automotive Literature should have a copy as it deals with any changes of a transplant into a Hudson. The front pump is two sections, outer section contains pump gears, pump bushing and front seal. behind that is a square cut o ring. Next is the stator support part of the pump, behind it is a pump gasket. a substitute for the square cut o ring comes to us as an extension housing o ring from 2000 up gm 4l60e . Brad on the Hudson it is not necessary to do the dial in of the converter as Hudson used factory set hollow dowels. BTDT Lou Cote'

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        • #5
          Also gaskets, bushings etc, are available from NorthWest Transmission parts in Ohio 800 327 1955 Lou

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          • #6
            I have one of those Preliminary manuals online

            http://www.studebaker-info.org/Tech/...Gmanpages.html
            64 GT Hawk (K7)
            1970 Avanti (R3)

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            • #7
              I may have a solution for my DG-200 leak, but I need a bit more details from the experts:

              While I was browsing into my car's shop manual, I've found that the Borg Warner trannys have received a new valve block incorporating the front and rear pump relief valve in order to reduce front pump pressure. Those that were built prior the transmission serial number HA-7118 has been identified with a letter " V " after the number. As seen on the picture, my tranny serial number is HA-8617, but no V letter at the end.

              Right now I'm wondering if the lack of a front and rear ralief valves can cause the leak as there is nothing to reduce front pump pressure, wich also brings me a question:

              Does the V letter at the end the tranny number indicates that the new valve block has been installed ? If not, what does indicates it ?

              Thank you in advance for you help

              Max

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 64V-K7 View Post
                I have one of those Preliminary manuals online

                http://www.studebaker-info.org/Tech/...Gmanpages.html
                Bob, you are a constant amazement!
                Even those of us who have visited, and used your resource page, can not possibly imagine how extensive it is.
                "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

                Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
                Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
                '33 Rockne 10,
                '51 Commander Starlight,
                '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée",
                '56 Sky Hawk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Read my last message, about gasket and square cut o ring. At around 65 years old i don't expect them to seal, they suffer as we do from heat and age. Lou Cote

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                  • #10
                    Hello fellow experts,

                    I recently managed to remove my DG-200 out of my car and have disassembled the front pump for inspection.

                    So far from the pictures, the front pump seems to be still in good shape for a tranny that have gotten hot, wich surprised me. If the leak problem can be fixed just by replacing the o-rings and gaskets, I'll be happy, but I want to hear your thoughts or advices on the front pump state.

                    Do I just need to replace the seals and gaskets or do I have to replace more parts of the front pump in order to fix the leak ?

                    As for the heat issue it did have, I'll be making an inspection on the bands to see if they the cause or just one of the symptom of the tranmission heat.

                    Thank you in advance for your help,

                    Max

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Check the pump bushing for wear, with the pump apart check the fit on the converter hub, it should be fairly tight. The converter hub should be smooth, no grooves or scratches. Replace front seal, the o ring seen in picture one, and gasket that goes behind it between pump and case. By fairly tight bushing fit less than a .010 feeler gauge between bushing and hub. Lou Cote

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Max262 View Post
                        /Cut/Those that were built prior the transmission serial number HA-7118 has been identified with a letter " V " after the number. As seen on the picture, my tranny serial number is HA-8617, but no V letter at the end./Cut/
                        I read that to mean: the defective pumps were all built before HA-7118 and had the "V" following that number. So After that, they were improved and had no "V".
                        So since your's is HA-8617 and no "V", it IS the improved type.
                        StudeRich
                        Second Generation Stude Driver,
                        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for your tips and advices so far, it really does help me to understand my transmission.

                          I've made closer inspections to the front pump body and collector ring and I've spotted some nicks on them. According to the shop manual, if the nicks are too big on the front pump body or on the collector ring they have to be replaced. I've took some pictures for you to see.

                          I'm wondering if those nicks can cause problems to the tranny and if I have to replace those parts. Your thoughts on this are welcome.

                          thanks you in advance,

                          Max

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No, those nicks are outside the machined area for operation. They are just cosmetic...like a flaw in the paint it won't harm operation one iota.
                            Bez Auto Alchemy
                            573-318-8948
                            http://bezautoalchemy.com


                            "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello fellow transmission experts,

                              Many months have passed and I've finally reassembled the front pump and put my DG-200 transmission back under my car. After some tests done with the engine running, my initial leak betwen the TC and the tranny itself seems to have been fixed. Unfortunately, I've discovered another leak, albeit small on the transmission located around the tranny's control lever and one of the band's adjusting screw. Other than that, the transmission works fine and doesn't leak when not running.

                              Could this happen if the transmission is overfilled or is it a sign of another problem ?Any suggestions from you will be welcome.

                              Thanks in advance,

                              Max
                              Last edited by Max262; 05-02-2020, 05:38 AM.

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