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Is something missing on this Avanti 4-speed shift lever/knob?

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  • Transmission / Overdrive: Is something missing on this Avanti 4-speed shift lever/knob?

    When the 4-speed knob is fully screwed onto the shift lever in my '64 Avanti, an unthreaded portion of shift lever, of reduced diameter and about 1/4" long, shows below the knob. It looks like something is missing--a spacer, a special nut for securing the knob? The parts manual does not show or list any parts between the knob and the lever. Is this the way it is supposed to be? Or did the factory fail to fully thread the top of the lever?
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    Attached Files
    Pete R
    Woodbridge, VA
    1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight Coupe with '62 289 and 4-speed
    1964 Studebaker Avanti R5083 R2 4-speed with 4.09:1 Twin Traction

  • #2
    It looks as though the ball is not threaded enough. It should set all the way through the threads.

    Comment


    • #3
      https://core-shifters.com/products/hurst-shifter-chrome-stick-shift-knob-jam-lock-nut-3-8-16-3-8x16-coarse-thread?variant=8018633411

      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

      Jeff


      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

      Comment


      • #4
        The ball is fully threaded and hollow in the middle, but it will only thread onto the lever as far as the lever is threaded. As you can see, the lever is not fully threaded. The Hurst jam nut would work, but the Studebaker lever is threaded 5/16-18 and the Hurst nut is 3/8-16. I'm really curious to hear from others who have a stock Studebaker lever to see if their setup has the same gap that mine does.
        Pete R
        Woodbridge, VA
        1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight Coupe with '62 289 and 4-speed
        1964 Studebaker Avanti R5083 R2 4-speed with 4.09:1 Twin Traction

        Comment


        • #5
          You need a jam nut to lock the knob with the pattern in the correct visual position.
          Just get the right jam nut (5/16" if that is what you say you have) and put it on there..
          Betcha a donut the hardware store will have one.
          HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

          Jeff


          Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



          Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm hoping to hear from some owners of 4-speed Studebaker Avantis. Does your stock shift lever and ball look like mine--with a gap under the ball, showing a quarter inch or so of unthreaded, reduced diameter lever, or do you have something else, like a jam nut or spacer between the ball and the lever? The Studebaker Avanti parts manual does not seem to show or list a jam nut or spacer for use under the ball.

            Thanks,

            Pete
            Pete R
            Woodbridge, VA
            1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight Coupe with '62 289 and 4-speed
            1964 Studebaker Avanti R5083 R2 4-speed with 4.09:1 Twin Traction

            Comment


            • #7
              Pete,
              Look at the picture(s) closely.
              That nut is designed for that shifter lever and shifter ball.
              The recessed threads on the bottom of the nut hang down on the unthreaded part of the shift lever stem.
              The raised round portion of the nut OD fits up into the recessed machined flat portion of the ball.
              You screw the nut all the way on (loosely) and then install the ball. turn the ball all the way down so the shift pattern is aligned properly and then tighten the jam nut to lock the ball in position with the pattern in the position you want.
              This is generic shifter 101. You don't have to have Avanti blood DNA to give you the correct answer.
              But, if it makes you feel better, that OK too.
              HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

              Jeff


              Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



              Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

              Comment


              • #8
                OK 4 Speed Shifter experts, isn't it highly likely that the OP's shifter Ball is just not a Studebaker Original?

                Since it was noted that Stude. used NO jamb nut, and I believe a smaller Ball, you simply cannot make aftermarket Parts work like originals, often MORE Mods are required.

                MORE ridiculous HUGE waste of space with SDC Symbols that cannot be downsized by TWO of us! Believe me I tried.
                StudeRich
                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                  OK 4 Speed Shifter experts, isn't it highly likely that the OP's shifter Ball is just not a Studebaker Original?

                  Since it was noted that Stude. used NO jamb nut, and I believe a smaller Ball, you simply cannot make aftermarket Parts work like originals, often MORE Mods are required.

                  MORE ridiculous HUGE waste of space with SDC Symbols that cannot be downsized by TWO of us! Believe me I tried.
                  OK Rich...
                  Did Studebaker just glue the shift ball to the stick?
                  Please tell us how the engineers at Studebaker aligned the shift pattern on the ball?
                  Must have been LocTite, eh?


                  HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                  Jeff


                  Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                  Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It would be no different than my Conversion Kit Eelco 3 Speed Shifter Ball, it has a "Pattern" insert that you pressed into an opening in the Steel Ball and is not moveable so after a few loosening's and tightening's and wear the Pattern just ends up crooked.

                    So are you saying Pete is Wrong, there had to be a way to "Center" the Pattern?
                    How about: it's the Wrong Ball, which explains the original problem, "exposed threads"?
                    StudeRich
                    Second Generation Stude Driver,
                    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                      It would be no different than my Conversion Kit Eelco 3 Speed Shifter Ball, it has a "Pattern" insert that you pressed into an opening in the Steel Ball and is not moveable so after a few loosening's and tightening's and wear the Pattern just ends up crooked.

                      So are you saying Pete is Wrong, there had to be a way to "Center" the Pattern?
                      How about: it's the Wrong Ball, which explains the original problem, "exposed threads"?
                      Rich, I am trying to help the man solve his issue.
                      I am not trying to knick the fabric of Studebaker history.
                      'Nuff said...
                      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                      Jeff


                      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The ball you see in the picture is a repro, but it is not oversized. It is the exact same size as the original ball (1.475" OD). I not using the original ball because its plastic threads are stripped and its surface is badly checkered from age. The new ball is threaded in the same way as the original ball, with the threads starting at the outer surface of the ball. The original ball is solid except for the hole; the repro ball is hollow with a wall thickness of maybe 3/8". Because both the new ball and the original ball are threaded beginning at the outer surface, they can only screw down the lever as far as the lever's threads go and the threads on the reduced diameter portion of the lever stop about 1/4" short of the end of the reduced diameter portion (see picture). So any ball whose threads start at its outer surface will, when screwed on all the way, leave the gap you see in the picture. And as Deepnhock points out, without a jam nut (or maybe a set screw) to lock the ball in the proper position, how do you keep the shift pattern properly aligned ? I'm not really looking for a non-original solution, as I have fixed this issue before--on my hot rod '54 Stude coupe. It has a Stude 4-speed lever like the one in the Avanti. On the '54 I used a 5/16-18 die to thread the remainder of the reduced diameter portion of the lever and I also used a jam nut. I can do that on the Avanti, but I would like to know what the factory did because for the Avanti I'm interested in originality.

                        The Hurst jam nut is not made for the Studebaker shift lever or ball because it is threaded 3/8-16, while the Studebaker lever and ball are threaded 5/16-18. It's made for a Hurst stick/ball that uses the larger thread.
                        Last edited by Pete R; 09-24-2019, 04:13 PM.
                        Pete R
                        Woodbridge, VA
                        1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight Coupe with '62 289 and 4-speed
                        1964 Studebaker Avanti R5083 R2 4-speed with 4.09:1 Twin Traction

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You will have to make one yourself. Just take a piece of 5/8" stainless steel bar stock and machine and thread it to fit.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sometimes it is possible to over think things.
                            Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Since you are looking for "originality" your only option is to get the correct original ball. If you still want to fit the non-original hollow ball; get a piece of bar stock, drill, tap and counterbore it (not thru though) to fit the stick. Drill the ball out to fit the bar stock, screw the barstock onto the stick until it bottoms, pour some epoxy (my choice is JB Weld) into the hollow ball, slide it onto the bar stock and align the pattern to suit you. If you've done it correctly, once the epoxy is dry you can remove and replace the ball just as the stock one.

                              Comment

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