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Noise in 246 engine

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  • Engine: Noise in 246 engine

    I have a 1951 2R11 with a 246 engine. Recently I noticed a rattling noise similar to a bad bearing coming from the timing gear cover area. At first I thought it was the water pump but I replaced it last year. Then noticed the noise was lower. What could cause the noise? There is 11,000 miles on the rebuild?
    thanks for any ideas.

  • #2
    Try pulling out the dipstick/breather and rotating it a bit and reinstalling.
    I had one ticking the crankshaft once.
    I know it's a swag, but... It's a free swag <g>..
    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff


    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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    • #3
      In addition to Jeff's info, make sure the fuel pump's actuator arm is installed "under" the cam lobe that operates the fuel pump. I'm not sure on this particular engine (never owned a commander six), but conventional diaphragm fuel pumps can be installed improperly on some engines and still pump enough fuel to keep the carburetor bowl supplied. (short stroking) However, the bottom of the actuator arm could damage the cam lobe and cause the noise you describe. When installing a fuel pump, you should experience resistance from the actuator arm spring as the arm properly contacts the cam. If it goes in too easy, it is probably wrong.

      I have nearly improperly installed fuel pumps on several engines, but always caught it before torquing everything down. (I think) If none of these things help, you'll probably have to drop the oil pan and check that one of the rod caps did not get properly torqued during the rebuild, and has worked loose. Better to bite the bullet and wrestle with an oil pan gasket set than to risk dropping a rod cap and losing a crankshaft. The peace of mind is worth that.
      John Clary
      Greer, SC

      SDC member since 1975

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      • #4
        Before pulling the pan, buy or borrow a mechanic's stethoscope. It can narrow down the source of the noise.

        Remove the fuel pump and run the engine on the gas in the float bowl. Any change in sound?

        Does the noise increase/decrease in frequency directly with rise and fall of RPM?

        Does the noise seem at engine RPM or one-half engine RPM? The cam gear turns half speed.

        Is the noise constant or staccato. Rod bearings, loose wrist pin, teeth off timing gear, loose cam gear will be staccato.

        jack vines
        PackardV8

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        • #5
          Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
          Before pulling the pan, buy or borrow a mechanic's stethoscope. It can narrow down the source of the noise.

          Remove the fuel pump and run the engine on the gas in the float bowl. Any change in sound?

          Does the noise increase/decrease in frequency directly with rise and fall of RPM?

          Does the noise seem at engine RPM or one-half engine RPM? The cam gear turns half speed.

          Is the noise constant or staccato. Rod bearings, loose wrist pin, teeth off timing gear, loose cam gear will be staccato.

          jack vines
          Presented by someone experienced enough to know when to avoid unnecessary work. So...Jack, you have earned my very first "LIKE" since the forum upgrade!

          It's all about a proper sequence of diagnostics...Right?
          John Clary
          Greer, SC

          SDC member since 1975

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          • #6
            I had one doing the same thing, in a 1960 Champ - the last year for the Commander 6. I started by listening to every area and could not narrow it down. I removed the fan belt. No change.

            It was running strange and I also found the heat riser to be stuck. Was that the source? (even though I knew it was not) I fixed it and moved on.

            I tried removing the fuel pump, then unplugging wires to the plugs one at a time,,,,, It was still there so I dropped the pan and found worn rod bearings but nothing too bad. It was hard to check wrist pins on this engine* but I tried and did not find any too 'loose'. Being a NON overdrive truck I thought for sure this would be the problem. It was not. I replaced all the bearings and moved on. The old oil has left sludge in the pan. Glad to find it and clean it out.

            I planned on sealing it up anyway, so moving on the timing gear was the last item. It was missing a whole tooth and parts of others near it.

            Being 50 years old, I moved on to the head gasket, and replaced the water pump while I was in there.

            It had 58,000 miles so now it is ready for another 58,000 miles. We drove it several 100's of miles this year and even put it to work.

            The Champion and Commander are notorious for this but they keep running about half the time. The V8 also does this, but tends to just stop running, so which is the 'better engine' ? ha ha

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            • #7
              Deepnhock, gave it a try, no luck.

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              • #8
                jclary,/ Packardv8 it’s not the fuel pump. It’s been installed for 5 years and no noise until recently. With increased rpms the noise increases. The stethoscope pinpointed the cam gear area. I believe it is an issue with the cam gear, timing gear or both. My next question is with the engine installed, how do you remove the large nut holding the vibration damper? As I turn it with 130 lbs of torque it just turns the engine over. Any tricks as to how to loosen the nut? Also is it right hand threaded? If it get it off, any secrets on how to remove the gears then install them? Thanks for the suggestions.

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                • #9
                  Put the truck in gear, 1st or reverse and set the emergency brake. Right hand thread.

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