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  • #31
    UPDATE :

    After the promising input from the machine shop foreman at my work,
    I decided to go ahead and bring the axle in to be checked out for
    straightness and cracks instead of just tossing it. For the record,
    I wasnt going to put ANY axle in without it being checked out for
    cracks first - thats a no brainer. The owner of the shop downtown
    agreed with the foreman here that there was nothing wrong with the
    axle in that area, it was just discolored and had some marring from
    the bearing being pressed on 40 years ago.

    He will first be checking it for straightness, and than if it passes
    that test, do a "wet mag" test for cracks. He said that they just
    checked a set of International tapered axles last week.

    As for priorities, I dont think its wise to throw 600 bucks at a 50
    dollar problem. The Fairborn axles can wait. Bumpers could not.

    Supposed to call at 3:30 to get the word ........

    Tom
    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

    Comment


    • #32
      UPDATE 9:20am weds :

      Just got a call from the shop, they found that the axle was "out" by
      about .024 if they used the "centers". If they V-blocked it, then it
      only shows .010 out. The taper doesnt seem to be concentric with the
      seal rider. Whats the deal? I guess I wont truely know how "straight"
      it is until I put it IN the axle housing and check it. I told them
      to go ahead and check for cracks - he is "warming up the machine"....

      Has anyone ever bothered to check one of these to this detail??

      Tom
      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

      Comment


      • #33
        No...
        Most of us would have changed it and been on the road an hour later
        Jeff[8D]



        quote:Originally posted by sbca96

        UPDATE 9:20am weds :

        Just got a call from the shop, they found that the axle was "out" by
        about .024 if they used the "centers". If they V-blocked it, then it
        only shows .010 out. The taper doesnt seem to be concentric with the
        seal rider. Whats the deal? I guess I wont truely know how "straight"
        it is until I put it IN the axle housing and check it. I told them
        to go ahead and check for cracks - he is "warming up the machine"....

        Has anyone ever bothered to check one of these to this detail??

        Tom


        DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
        Ocala, FL.[u](For one more month!)</u>
        '37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
        '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
        '61 Hawk (project)
        http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

        Jeff


        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

        Comment


        • #34
          Is there anyone with HELPFUL input on axle straightness specifications?

          I got the results of the "wet mag" test - NO CRACKS! So all I need to
          know now is if its straight enough. At worst its at least 60% better
          then the one IN the housing now.

          Tom
          '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
          Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
          I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

          Comment


          • #35
            Tom,
            You have already passed on the truly helpful advice passed on to you from Studebaker people with years of experience with the exact problem you are involved with.
            Just change the axle and move on, for your own sake, and the sake of others. Have you ever seen a tire/wheel/hub assembly come off and tear up a Stude? I have. I have also had it happen to me on several occaisions driving my Stude as hard as I could.
            You want helpful?
            Listen to other Stude people when they speak.
            If you shop around long enough to get the reply you are looking for, you will probably end up being disappointed and will have spent more in the long run than just fixing it right away would have cost...BTDT...
            Go ahead and discount my advice as useless, because you don't like me, or what I have to say.
            No skin off my Avanti rear quarter...
            Axles are cheap.
            My advice is still the same.
            Change it for your own good.
            Jeff[8D]





            quote:Originally posted by sbca96

            Is there anyone with HELPFUL input on axle straightness specifications?

            I got the results of the "wet mag" test - NO CRACKS! So all I need to
            know now is if its straight enough. At worst its at least 60% better
            then the one IN the housing now.

            Tom


            DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
            Ocala, FL.[u](For one more month!)</u>
            '37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
            '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
            '61 Hawk (project)
            http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

            Jeff


            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

            Comment


            • #36
              Again, anyone with HELPFUL input to the question I asked? Mike? Dale?
              Preferably someone thats actually been READING my posts?

              I am TRYING my best to turn over a new leaf on the forum, and not get
              into a pissing match with YOU Jeff, or Mr Biggs. Neither of you are
              making this easy for me. Let me clarify for you, since you obviously
              have NOT been reading what I type. I GOT a new axle, like anyone else
              would do. I inspected it, and posted pictures of it. I got feedback
              from a couple people in regards to what THEY saw in a picture on the
              internet. I had a knowledgable person inspect the axle (I think that
              Mike and Dale would agree that IN PERSON beats a picture) and he felt
              it looked OK. From that I brought the axle to a shop that DOES this
              kind of stuff, & he ALSO agreed that the area that Mike and Dale were
              concerned about (and I was also) was OK. I had this shop check the
              axle for cracks, and it has NONE. I also had the shop check for the
              straightness, which they felt was OK, but have no tolerance data to be
              giving a final analysis. This the INFO that I was asking about.

              Feel free to modify your post now that you can see that I am NOT an
              idiot, and NOT doing this the hard way, and NOT looking for someone
              to just tell me what I want to hear. When was the last time you went
              and checked an axle for straightness? Or did you only check for cracks?
              Get off your know-it-all high horse and stop talking down to me, and
              then perhaps we can start getting along.

              Tom
              '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
              Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
              I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

              Comment


              • #37
                Tom,
                Can you send me your E-mail address. I have 4 pictures that are of my Avanti that, as the saying goes are worth a thousand (or more [B)]) words. I'm still not computer literate enough to figure out how to scan and post this stuff.
                Dan

                Road Racers turn left AND right.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Tom,
                  Send me your E-mail address where I can forward these 4 pictures of MY Avanti. These fall in the catagory of being worth "a thousand (or more[:0]) words or mabe$" Post them if you like...I'm not computer literate enough to scan and post this stuff.
                  Dan

                  Road Racers turn left AND right.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Tom,
                    Never mind,,,,I found your E-mail address (dum-mass me) I hope they came through ok.
                    Dan

                    Road Racers turn left AND right.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Dan,

                      I got an email, but its got a link to Snapfish, and I dont have an
                      account, its asking me to sign up for an account to view the pictures.
                      In the thumb nails I see an Avanti, and what looks to be a hub still
                      bolted in a rim - I am assuming its a sheared off axle? I have seen
                      this already ... as I have mentioned I broke a tapered axle back in
                      High School on my Hawk. I had the replacement axle checked for any
                      cracks, there arent any. My only concern was straightness, & how it
                      can be checked BEFORE installing. I cleaned up the area that was a
                      concern for a "spun bearing" with a Scotchbrite pad and some WD40. It
                      looks like a NEW axle now. I will post pictures when I get home. It
                      [u]didnt</u> spin, the surface is only marred from the bearing race being a
                      pressed on, and some corrosion from years of service.

                      I showed the pictures to the shop foreman at my work and he said that
                      its obvious from the picture why Mike and Dale thought it had spun. He
                      said that the picture makes it look MUCH worse then it is. I am not
                      drawing this out, only documenting the process for others.

                      Tom
                      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Since you asked...
                        I checked my last 5 axles in my lathe for runout.
                        Scrapped one old Stude axle...Scrapped a re-ground 28 spline 10 bolt redrilled for 5X4&3/4 pattern (it was twisted and bent), and had the flanged axles check out fine.
                        I did read your post's.
                        BTW, most seal manufacturers will only allow for about .003" to .005" runout with their single lip nitrile seals. Best to check their guidelines.
                        I'll defer to your onsite expertise.
                        Best of luck.
                        Jeff (15 hands isn't that high...)Rice[8D]



                        quote:Originally posted by sbca96

                        Again, anyone with HELPFUL input to the question I asked? Mike? Dale?
                        Preferably someone thats actually been READING my posts?
                        I am TRYING my best to turn over a new leaf on the forum, and not get
                        into a pissing match with YOU Jeff, or Mr Biggs. Neither of you are
                        making this easy for me. Let me clarify for you, since you obviously
                        have NOT been reading what I type. I GOT a new axle, like anyone else
                        would do. I inspected it, and posted pictures of it. I got feedback
                        from a couple people in regards to what THEY saw in a picture on the
                        internet. I had a knowledgable person inspect the axle (I think that
                        Mike and Dale would agree that IN PERSON beats a picture) and he felt
                        it looked OK. From that I brought the axle to a shop that DOES this
                        kind of stuff, & he ALSO agreed that the area that Mike and Dale were
                        concerned about (and I was also) was OK. I had this shop check the
                        axle for cracks, and it has NONE. I also had the shop check for the
                        straightness, which they felt was OK, but have no tolerance data to be
                        giving a final analysis. This the INFO that I was asking about.
                        Feel free to modify your post now that you can see that I am NOT an
                        idiot, and NOT doing this the hard way, and NOT looking for someone
                        to just tell me what I want to hear. When was the last time you went
                        and checked an axle for straightness? Or did you only check for cracks?
                        Get off your know-it-all high horse and stop talking down to me, and
                        then perhaps we can start getting along.
                        Tom
                        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                        Jeff


                        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Chuck it........


                          Ok...if the bad "looking" spot was truly just a weird looking stain...

                          You say that the seal diameter is out to the taper but how bout the bearing diameter? Are they the same dia? What Jeff says is right, seals don't like getting forced out of round. The axle originally was machined between centers, now they're off .024"? Does that mean the end will wobble .024" or go up and down .012"? Different centers?
                          If the taper is offset, and not actually bent, you may be ok to use since you have discs in the back. If you had drum brakes you'ld have the same bad pedal pulse you have now.
                          If the taper is bent....you'll have the same problem you have now...a disc that rotates out of plain...causing a pedal pulse!

                          Mike

                          p.s - thEn and thAn are totally different words!
                          I know, I know don't shoot, just trying to help!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Mike,

                            My best answer to you is "I dont know", I wasnt there when the guy
                            checked the straightness, and he didnt seem to be very sure of the
                            findings. I think that the only way that I will "know" is to get
                            the axle in the housing and check the taper (like I did the one that
                            is in there now). I dont know where he blocked it, or where he did
                            the check on the axle. He said that the outer end, where he set it
                            up on the lathe, looked "boogered up" and he wasnt sure if that might
                            have caused the funky numbers. You figure if the cone wasnt dead
                            center in the chamfered hole, then all bets are off. I know that it
                            has no cracks, so that makes me feel good. Here is the pictures of
                            the SAME axle, with about 5 minutes of scotchbriting :







                            There is a little pitting left from the disimilar metal corrosion, but
                            I dont think you will find many 40 year old parts looking much better.
                            I am going out now to put the axle in, and hopefully it comes out as
                            not bent. From the info the guy gave to me, I expect it to be better
                            then the one thats in the axle now. I will leave this one in there,
                            until I can get my fire fighter friends axle checked for straightness.
                            I know that his was checked for cracks, but who knows if its not bent?

                            Tom
                            '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                            Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                            http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                            I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              OK .. I am satisfied with the results, not perfect, but when you are
                              dealing with parts this old, beggars cant be chosers. With the axle
                              in the housing the runout of the taper looked like under .010, maybe
                              close to .005. Its hard to tell - with the keyway, and its getting
                              late, my back and neck hurt & the stupid dial indicator arm just kept
                              moving on me! Not getting "accurate" results, I just decided to put
                              the hub on and check the runout there. I got a max of .010 on there.
                              The runout was in the same location as the old axle, so I think that
                              the hub is a little off still (bent the direction of the axle). I will
                              see if I can get the hub from the guy I got the axle from, but in the
                              meantime I will have Bobby machine the hub to eliminate the runout.
                              Its so little that its not worth being concerned about, and at most
                              it will be in the car for a year or two. No cracks, so I am safe on
                              the axle now. Public safety hazzard is resolved.

                              Oh .. and FYI .. I took a picture of the bent axle after I removed the
                              bearing from the taper. Looks like the other one did - stained :



                              Tom
                              '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                              Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                              I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Got the hub machined to offset the runout, and buttoned it up tonight.
                                Went out for a drive and the pulsating pedal seems to be completely
                                gone. I will drive the Avanti to work tomorrow, and have some more
                                time to get a feel for things. One thing I can say, even though I have
                                not been able to REALLY hit the brakes, what I have done is amazing!
                                I fear that these brakes might be so strong, they will twist the king
                                pins right off the upper and lower a-arms!

                                Tom
                                '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                                Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                                http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                                I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                                Comment

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