Replacement axle?? Axle saga - RESOLVED!

[sbca96]

UPDATE at last post

I think I came up with my temporary solution, but I wanted to see if there
was any SERIOUS negatives to this direction.

Problem :

I had Bobby turn the two rear hubs, to make sure they were true, & both
where out. One of the hubs showed signs of being beaten and pryed on
with something quite large. Most likely someone without a hub puller. The
passenger side hub went on perfect, with less then .001 runout, the other
side (the one with pry marks) showed .022 runout!! Thats not gonna work.
It also explains my pulsating pedal (though I dont have a clue why I didnt
notice it before, unless the worn pads played a part). I couldnt see how
Bobby could have messed up machining the hub, so I decided to check the
axle to see if it was bent. Unfortunately - it is. The axle is bent about .024
in the same area that would cause the hub to be "out". Normally this is a
reason to buy the flanged axle kit from Fairborn, which I plan to do, but I
can NOT afford it right now. I need to get my bumpers rechromed for the
upcoming show I have labored all year long to enter (win?) I thought of
getting a replacment axle, but I dont even want to spend that money for
something I plan on dumping in a year or so. The axle has been bent for
over 15 years, so I doubt that there is a breakage issue. The pry marks
on the hub are opposite from the direction the axle is bent. It was bent by
someone trying to remove the hub by prying with something huge.

Solution option "A" :

Because I drive the car infrequently, I think that I will see if Bobby can do
a tapered shim that I can put between the hub and the disc. This will allow
me to get the car mobile again, solve the wobble, and spend the least cash
doing so. Then in a year or so, I will buy the Fairborn kit. I KNOW that its
not the "Right" way to fix it, but it will work, and it beats machining the hub
to match the bend (which would make it useless for someone else). If it is
not possible to make the tapered shim, then I might just have him machine
it with forced runout to match the axle bend. One would assume that any
replacement axle, would come with a hub.

Solution option "B" :

My secondary idea is to use shim stock peices of .020 and .010 as washers
at the lug bolts, in between the hub and the rotor. The tapered shim is the
best support for the rotor, but since the wheel is only bolted in 5 places, I
think that the result would be a "taper" that would work. The hub is steel
and the rotor is steel, so some aluminum shim stock might would nice and
then deform a little to keep stress points from forming.

I sware .. if its not one thing ... its another.

Thoughts?

Tom

[Kdancy]

Tom, there should be scads of Stude Dana 44 axles out there for cheap. Surly some one in your area has a spare one. Where are you located ? I think even NOS ones are pretty cheap, under 100.00.

[DEEPNHOCK]

Change the axle and hub immediately.
I'll leave my personal comments out of this.
This is a safety issue, and now it is a 'public' safety issue.
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by sbca96

I think I came up with my temporary solution, but I wanted to see if there
was any SERIOUS negatives to this direction.

Problem :

I had Bobby turn the two rear hubs, to make sure they were true, & both
where out. One of the hubs showed signs of being beaten and pryed on
with something quite large. Most likely someone without a hub puller. The
passenger side hub went on perfect, with less then .001 runout, the other
side (the one with pry marks) showed .022 runout!! Thats not gonna work.
It also explains my pulsating pedal (though I dont have a clue why I didnt
notice it before, unless the worn pads played a part). I couldnt see how
Bobby could have messed up machining the hub, so I decided to check the
axle to see if it was bent. Unfortunately - it is. The axle is bent about .024
in the same area that would cause the hub to be "out". Normally this is a
reason to buy the flanged axle kit from Fairborn, which I plan to do, but I
can NOT afford it right now. I need to get my bumpers rechromed for the
upcoming show I have labored all year long to enter (win?) I thought of
getting a replacment axle, but I dont even want to spend that money for
something I plan on dumping in a year or so. The axle has been bent for
over 15 years, so I doubt that there is a breakage issue. The pry marks
on the hub are opposite from the direction the axle is bent. It was bent by
someone trying to remove the hub by prying with something huge.

Solution option "A" :

Because I drive the car infrequently, I think that I will see if Bobby can do
a tapered shim that I can put between the hub and the disc. This will allow
me to get the car mobile again, solve the wobble, and spend the least cash
doing so. Then in a year or so, I will buy the Fairborn kit. I KNOW that its
not the "Right" way to fix it, but it will work, and it beats machining the hub
to match the bend (which would make it useless for someone else). If it is
not possible to make the tapered shim, then I might just have him machine
it with forced runout to match the axle bend. One would assume that any
replacement axle, would come with a hub.

Solution option "B" :

My secondary idea is to use shim stock peices of .020 and .010 as washers
at the lug bolts, in between the hub and the rotor. The tapered shim is the
best support for the rotor, but since the wheel is only bolted in 5 places, I
think that the result would be a "taper" that would work. The hub is steel
and the rotor is steel, so some aluminum shim stock might would nice and
then deform a little to keep stress points from forming.

I sware .. if its not one thing ... its another.

Thoughts?

Tom

[jimmijim8]

Any Studebaker car dana 44 taper axle will work whether it be from a posi or 1 wheel drive. When I swapped the 44 rear out of my Hawk, the TT I put in had one of the axles bent by someone not taking the drum off properly. I didn't know till I put it in gear while up on jack stands. Wobble-Wobble, Aw chit!!! Pull your defective axle out and install another making sure that the thrust block or pin is in place before inserting the replacement axle. This is probably the most inexpensive, safest, and no-nonsensical route to take. jimmijim

[Chicken Hawk]

Axles from a 44 housing in '51 and '52 are shorter than '53 through '64.

Ted

[Mike Van Veghten]

CHANGE IT

Nuff said.

Mike

[sbca96]

I plan on changing it, and I think I have located one locally. I must
say that some of the comments kinda crack me up. This has been like
this for over 20 years, why the urgency? You think that just because
I found its bent, it will suddenly break tomorrow??

In the mean time, I am looking for a fix to get the car mobile again,
I can not leave a car on jack stands in my driveway. Thanks for the
input, I think that the separate shims will work until I can get the
replacement axle in my hands.

Thanks for the info Ted, I will make sure I get the later axle.

Tom

EDIT : Any tips on pulling out an axle? I did one years ago in my
Hawks open diff Dana 44, but its been so long I dont remember how.

[PackardV8]

Hi, Tom,

Your problem-solving skills are well known. However, in this case, you are making it harder than it needs be. There are Dana 44 axles everywhere. I have two on the shelf right now. Want to make it to that show? Find another axle, have it magnafluxed over the outer 1' and bolt it in.

In reality, the Dana 44 tapered axles were a questionable design from the day of the first Stude V8. I have lost count of how many I have broken, seen break, heard of breaking over the past 50 years.

One local Avanti owner is the poster child for this recommendation. He was driving to a show on several-years-old-tires-with-like-new-tread when one threw a belt and broke his right front fender. He got new tires and the next month his left axle snapped off and broke the rear quarter. He is looking at $2,500 - 3,000 in body work and paint. Could have bought a lot of tires and axles for that money. Luckily, no one was injured.

thnx, jv.


PackardV8

[Mike Van Veghten]

sbca wrote -

quote:This has been like this for over 20 years, why the urgency? You think that just because I found its bent, it will suddenly break tomorrow??

Well..why take the chance? I'm guessing you've seen the rear fenders wiped off the car because the axle broke...I have. Or the crashes at the races because an axle broke...I have.

I was also very lucky one night...a girl friend and I had gone to the Irwindale drag strip (the original one) one night. I had made a few runs in my four speed, 210, 2dr, 56 Chevy. On the way to her house...we were "one turn" from the front of her house....the car shook like we'd been hit by a truck, a big bang to go with it....and the car dropped to the ground in back. Luckly I had just let the clutch out and 3 houses away from her house, so we weren't moving but a coupla miles an hour.
We were lucky we weren't going very fast, the car was lucky we weren't going very fast. No damage to anything but the axle and a 750 foot, up hill towing bill.

So yea...don't get smart on us....and don't tear up any Avanti fenders!!

Mike

[stude freak]

Get the new axles safety is worth more than your ego or a trophy. If ya want a trophy i got a house full i will send ya one.

David Baggett Mantachie,Ms.

[sbca96]

I will have the axle by the show, the issue is that I made it a point
that I was GOING to bring the Avanti to In N Out Burger tomorrow night.
This axle has been in this condition since whoever beat the heck out
of it bent it. I understand the potential of axles breaking, I have
also experienced it - it sucks. The Hawk broke that same side back
in High School, the drum came off with the wheel, and with the single
master cylinder I had NO brakes. At about 5 mph, the car slid on the
backing plate for quite a few houses before it stopped. The Avanti
has a dual master, so at least I would be able to stop it IF it broke.
This axle assembly came from a 64 Wagonaire that my dad bought back
in the early 70's. It got swapped into our 63 Wagonaire, then into a
61 Hawk owned by a friend. Then into MY 60 Hawk, and now into my 63
Avanti. Its probably seen about 50,000 miles (at least). Looks like
I will be getting a replacement axle this weekend, and I will have it
checked for cracks. I wasnt being "smart", I just honestly dont feel
that now that I know its bent, makes it any more prone to breaking. If
anything, I know I should not attempt to beat my 148.1 foot stopping
distance now that I have the Cobra brakes on-until the new axle is in!

Sorry it came off that way, I just REALLY wanted to make it tomorrow!
The actual car show is Sept 2nd.

Oh .. also, the car will have to sit for about two weeks while the
front and rear bumpers are rechromed, hopefully they will allow me to
drop them off in Gardena Saturday morning. So since the Cobra brakes
got installed, I have barely been able to drive it! Grrrrrr!!!

I have to call one more person that might have one OUT of the axle, &
ready to install. If I can pick one up from him, then I will swap it
out tonight, and be done with it.

Tom

[Alan]

Tom, What car is it going in? I have a 4.54 geared Dana 44 out of a 53K that I would sell for $50 if you pick it up 10 min. from Gardena or $100 to deliver it to you.

[sbca96]

Alan, this is for the 63 Avanti. I appreciate the offer, but I am in
Santa Barbara now, and wont be going to Gardena until Sat. Hey, if
you are in Gardena .... can I drop off my bumpers to you, and then you
bring them to Vernes for me, IF they arent going to be open Saturday?
I have an axle lined up for this weekend in town, but I still might be
able to get one today on the drive home.

This whole "get it done today" issue is to get the car to the Santa
Barbara InNOut Burger tomorrow night as I planned. Since the bumpers
will be off the car from Saturday on, this is my last chance to get
it over to show "the guys" until the car show. I like to set goals
and meet them. I had no idea that the axle was bent, this was a shot
from left field. Shows how the difference in the gripping surfaces
between drum and disc brakes cause problems you didnt know about to
poke up their ugly head! I wonder how many other tapered axle Studes
are on the road with bent axles! I would never have known if I wasnt
checking the runout of the rear rotors.

Thanks guys!

Tom

[sbca96]

UPDATE : The second source of an axle came up empty, I am too tired
from all this to deal with it tonight anyway. I will get the axle I
already found this weekend, and install it. Tonight I will remove
the bumpers to bring to LA either tomorrow (halfday?) or Saturday. I
NEED to get those over to the shop, or its not gonna get done on time!

I called the insurance, and they say that having the bumpers off the
car will NOT effect my policy. Thats good news. So I will be able to
continue to trouble shoot sans bumpers, and make In N Out next week
with a "new" axle installed.

I hope I dont like the bumpers OFF the car so much I feel I wasted the
money having them rechromed![B)]

Tom

[Alan]

How much is Vern charging? and how soon will he get them done? Front and rear?