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Here we go again: Contemporary Motor Oil

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  • Here we go again: Contemporary Motor Oil

    This topic is constantly changing, but things seem to have settled down a bit. I'll be briefly discussing this [again] in the December Co-Operator, but today learned of this new oil specifically for our older engines:

    http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/index.html

    'Most everyone is finally in agreement that contemporary oils marketed for contemporary engines don't have enough ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, if you can pronounce it) in them to protect flat-tappet camshafts. If you don't believe that, quit reading and go on to the next topic.

    Enthusiast Dennis Kirban of Kirban Peformance Products was kind eniough to sit in on The Co-Operator Tech Session at Lancaster and explain the benefits of the product ZDDPlus he markets. It is available through vendors Jon Myer and Studebaker International, and possibly others, in Studebaker-land. You can add a pint of ZDDPlus to just about any contemporary oil of your choosing and restore the ZDDP level needed by the older, flat-top camshaft engine in any Studebaker.

    Castrol is now marketing a Collector / Muscle Car Oil as well, readily available at most retailers around the country. It already has enough ZDDP in it if you prefer to not use a separate additive. But it must not be used in cars newer than 1988, either, so don't buy a case of it and figure you can use it in both your Studebaker and your late-model, daily driver.

    The D-A Lubricant Company on the west side of Indianapolis, manufacturers of the oil in above-mentioned link, has been in business for years. I even took a sample of Kendall C-999 Steering Gear Lubricant in there several years ago and got an audience with one of their chemists, to see if they had a product we could use in Studebaker/Ross steering gears. He analyzed my C-999 sample in their lab while I watched (interesting process!) and concluded they did not. We then explored the possibility of manufacturing such a product for Studebaker use. The cost and quantity involved were prohibitive, so that's where that project ended.

    Anyway, it looks like D-A has created a Classic Car Oil with ZDDL and additional ingredients for collector car engines that spend a long time in storage, so that might be something to consider, too. (Personally, I bought so many cases of old-formula Shell Rotella-T two years ago that it's going to be years before I have to address this issue for my own cars!) BP

    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

  • #2
    Thanks Bob for the info. I recently put an R2+ cam in my Hawk with new lifters and decided to make sure I did not do any damage. I bought Brad Penn break in oil which has plenty of ZDDP. It was $6/qt but I think it was cheap insurance.

    http://www.bradpennracing.com/

    http://www.lnengineering.com/store/c...penn-m-10.html




    Dan White
    64 R1 GT
    64 R2 GT
    Dan White
    64 R1 GT
    64 R2 GT
    58 C Cab
    57 Broadmoor (Marvin)

    Comment


    • #3
      Cool, Dan. That looks like a good product, too. BP
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

      Comment


      • #4
        I appreciate your sharing the latest information.

        What type of valve lifting system does the 4.9 L inline six used in Ford 150/etc. trucks through about 1994 have?

        Perry
        '23 Special Six,
        '50 Business Champ,
        '50 Starlight Champ,
        '60 Lark droptop,
        '63 GT R1
        Perry
        \'50 Business Champ,
        \'50 Starlight Champ,
        \'60 Lark Convertible,
        \'63 GT R1,
        \'67 Triumph TR4A

        Comment


        • #5
          Flat tappet hydraulic lifters, long pushrods, rocker arms

          Reviving an early Lark
          sigpic
          JohnP, driving & reviving
          60 Lark & 58 Scotsman 4dr

          Comment


          • #6
            Therefore, this flat-tappet camshaft discussion also applies to the 4.9L?

            Perry
            '23 Special Six,
            '50 Business Champ,
            '50 Starlight Champ,
            '60 Lark droptop,
            '63 GT R1
            Perry
            \'50 Business Champ,
            \'50 Starlight Champ,
            \'60 Lark Convertible,
            \'63 GT R1,
            \'67 Triumph TR4A

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes

              PackardV8
              PackardV8

              Comment


              • #8
                Bob, I recently installed a new R2+ cam and lifters in my Avanti and am using Valvoline 10W40 ATV oil plus a bottle of Compcam breakin additive from Summit. The ATV oil is available from Autozone. The composition of the oil can be seen on the Valvoline website. It seems to fit the bill. Check it out. As mentioned in a previous post, I think 20W50 oil is a bit too viscous for normal Studes, unless they have been built to R3 clearance specs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I haven't seen any mention about Castroll's Classic Car motor oil. Has anyone had experience with it?
                  Rog

                  '59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop
                  Smithtown,NY
                  '59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop
                  Smithtown,NY
                  Recording Secretary, Long Island Studebaker Club

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    quote:Originally posted by raprice

                    I haven't seen any mention about Castroll's Classic Car motor oil. Has anyone had experience with it?
                    Rog
                    Wel, Rog, it's only been on the market about six months, so it would be impossible for anyone to have long-term results to report....and that's the problem: Just about any oil in anything will last six months!

                    To some extent, one must rely on the integrity of the company marketing the product in the case of motor oil. It's not something you can take home and run through a battery of chemical tests and determine if it is what they say it is. BP
                    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                    Ayn Rand:
                    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:Originally posted by raprice

                      I haven't seen any mention about Castroll's Classic Car motor oil. Has anyone had experience with it?
                      Rog

                      '59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop
                      Smithtown,NY
                      Mr Green Jeans is happy with it so far - about 8 months and 1200 miles.

                      <h5>Mark
                      '57 Transtar Deluxe
                      Vancouver Island

                      Are you planning to attend the NW Overdrive Tour in Parksville, BC
                      May 23 & 24, 2009?
                      </h5>
                      Mark Hayden
                      '66 Commander
                      Zone Coordinator
                      Pacific Can-Am Zone

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bob & Mark,
                        Thanks for your comments. Most appreciated.
                        I'm leaning toward trying Castroll's product. I've used their products for years and have faith in them.
                        Rog

                        '59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop
                        Smithtown,NY
                        '59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop
                        Smithtown,NY
                        Recording Secretary, Long Island Studebaker Club

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          When I went to Fleetwood (Steve Plunkett's London, Ontario estate - his dad apparently invented the Pill) this summer, I met a gentleman who said that they mixed up oils especially for classic cars, and the price for a case was in the $40 range, which seemed very reasonable. Based on what has been said in the Cooperator, he seemed to be very knowledgeable, and knew that "J" diesel did not meet the old car requirements that "I" diesel had. I have his info somewhere, but I am already stocked up on "I" so I am not in the market for a while.

                          Is anyone interested? He was in the greater Toronto (Ontario) area.

                          By the way, I really enjoyed Fleetwood. About 800 very nice cars. This year, they had Batman, Batwoman, the original George Barris Batmobile, the Batcycle, and the Batcopter. (Flying in, no less). Steve collects Cadillacs (big showroom collection). A picture of my car (Bert, my 1955 2-Tone green Commander Regal Coupe) showed up in Old Autos, but they didn't give me any credit.

                          Paul

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            for the latest RESEARCH (SAE papers, et.al.), not just opinions or sales-person-ship.

                            http://systems-engineering-associates.com/avocation

                            Most people put in too much ZDDP/ZDP/ZTDP, which is harmful. There is a paper on how to titrate your additive, assuming that you really need it. And yes, STP is still the joke it was in the 60's.


                            Terry, North Texas
                            1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
                            (in stage 1 resto "Project A")
                            http://sterkel.org/avanti
                            1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
                            1999 Toyota rice burner
                            1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

                            New resolution.
                            I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
                            challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
                            I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just don't understand the concern. Some new cars still use flat tappet cams and pushrods.

                              Comment

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