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  • Studeman
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Swifster

    Any suggestions on welding up the doghouse from individual parts?
    HUH? Welding what? A complete front end? Nothing is welded originally- other than the fenders spot-welded to the inner fenders and front headlight panels (forget what Stude called them).
    If your talking about that- it's a piece of cake...

    I can see no sane reason to weld the doghouse together unless you plan on a tilt-front end.

    Ray


    Specializing in Studebaker Restoration

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  • Swifster
    replied
    Any suggestions on welding up the doghouse from individual parts?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tom - Mulberry, FL

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

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  • Studeman
    replied
    Here is a copy of an e-mail to another SDC Forum Member addressing this issue: C/K's are much the same process...

    >I also had a body fit question on my Lark Convertible: My new hood, driver's side fender and front panel do not fit as nicely as I'd like from the original body shop paint job last year. I had a nos front panel painted with my new hood and would like to line them all up correctly. I've heard of getting the hood on first and then adjusting from there. Have you put together that car often enough to have any tips?
    >
    Yes, I have done several 59-64 Lark-types. I am usually working with a blank-slate (entire doghouse removed)..so your MMV.
    I install the COWL RUBBER first- then the hood , with a shop-broom as a prop-rod , center it and get a good hood-to-cowl gap. Make it as tight as possible without the hood hitting the cowl center when opened. I would install the parking light assemblies before the next step... I bolt together the entire doghouse getting the best fender/grill panel alignment as possible, but leave the fender-to-radiator support bolts a little loose. Don't put the radiator or grille in yet- you'll need the access for adjusting the hood gap at the front- especially if you don't have a hood ornament. Install the fender-to-hood bumpers. I install this whole thing as a unit and make my adjustments at the rear fender/cowl/door gap/hood corners. Use blue painters tape to cover the front of the hood and grille-panel contact areas. Then I install the radiator support washers and begin the task of aligning the fenders to the hood. Check often by carefully closing the hood. Once you have the fenders centered and at the right height (rad-support).. start tweeking the alignment with the other bolts starting at the radiator support and working out to each side. The last ones to install/tighten are the inner fender-to-cowl brace bolts.


    >The passenger side door/ fender gap is great, but the driver's side needs help at the top of the door gap toward the door to tighten it up.
    >
    >
    Leave the rear bolts of the pass-fender alone, but loosen the pass-fender to cowl brace bolts.
    On the drivers side: Loosen the inner fender-to-cowl brace bolts first. Then, If tightening the upper fender-to-hinge pillar bolt doesn't pull it in enough... you may have to remove the upper (2) rubber shims and substitute thinner ones. If you still can't get a good gap- remove the upper shim. If that still doesn't work... you may have to move the door forward slightly and try again.



    2nd e-mail:
    >
    >
    >Great help, Ray, thank you. I will pull the front grill panel off and work on the fit soon. My new painted one comes back this week. The hood already closes nicely at the cowl. Of course if you raise it too high the points of the hood will hit the fenders back there,
    >
    OK... leave the hinges etc alone then...

    >but it seems to sit high on the driver's side by the grill panel a bit.
    >
    Sounds like you need a shim under that sides rad support

    >That may be the original grill panel that had extensive work on it and may be just a little sick on that side. The gap is not good. Can I adjust the fender/door gap on that side before I get the front grill panel back
    >
    Yes... as in the earlier e-mail, the 1st alignment to the doghouse is the door/cowl/fender gaps.. with temporary shimming of the radiator support to relieve any stress on the top fender/hinge pillar bolts.

    >and tweak the grill panel to the hood later?
    >
    I would wait and install the new grille-panel before working on any gaps

    <font color=

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  • Tom Bredehoft
    replied
    I've only done this once, but what I did was put on the radiator mount, making sure the right number of spacers were under it, then hanging each inner/outer fender, one at a time on it, attaching the back with two or three screws, of the 6. All screws go in loose, not tight. Bring the hood down and adjust as needed, pry up, down forward, etc, to get everything where you want it, then put in all screws and tighten. Now put the air scoop on. Adjust as needed.

    My 55 had a panel between the fenders in front of the radiator, not sure if this applies in your case or not.

    [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
    Tom Bredehoft
    '53 Commander Coupe
    '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
    (Under Construction 436 hrs.)
    '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
    All Indiana built cars

    Leave a comment:


  • Gallivan
    replied
    I guess I didn't make my original question clear! What I need is the sequence for putting the front clip together- I know the fenders need to be aligned with the hood- if someone could give me the step-by-step. The rear quarters and doors are aligned very nicely, thanks to this forum.
    One problem is my lower valance, or scoop was pretty messed up (bent and twisted) I've put quite a few hours into it, but I don't trust that it's exactly the shape it'e supposed to be- I would rather fit it to the fenders than vice versa.

    Gallivan
    57 Golden Hawk
    Golden, CO

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  • 52 Ragtop
    replied
    Also, remember, if you paint the outer panels first, then spray the jams and inner fenders etc, you will not have to polish any overspry off the inner jams! You are going to color sand and buff the exterior, so what if a little overspray gets on it!
    When I sprayed my 62 ragtop, it was a body shell only, then the doors and deck lid, then after those were assembled and fitted, I sprayed the front end.
    If everything has been properly fitted to the car BEFORE you paint it, and you take your time to assemble it that will help prevent scratching it.

    Jim

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  • bams50
    replied
    I think I'd rather leave the engine OUT while the car is painted, for the following reasons:

    1. Prevents overspray/dirt from getting in/on your engine

    2. Prevents anything getting dropped on or down, or stolen from, your engine

    3. Allows you to easily do the inevitable underhood cleaning/touchup you'll need to do without the engine in the way

    Sure, it may increase the PITA level slightly, but I feel it's well worth it.

    Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
    Parish, central NY 13131

    "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

    "It was the last chance for Studebaker to turn things around. The company was down to its last bullet, and this new small car was it. They called it the Lark"



    Leave a comment:


  • studegary
    replied
    [quote]Originally posted by Gallivan

    Definitely a lot of good advice here- I'll have to print it up and take it to my paint man- this will be a copper metallic paint, so hopefully he has the stands and room to set it up as suggested. I'm thinking now it might be worth trailering the car over there and let him do the firewall and inner fenders, bring it back home and install the engine and rest of the sheet metal, and bring it back.

    By the way, they must have painted the car with the engine in place at the factory- the bottoms of my inners did not get fully sprayed and the original crayon markings are still there.

    Gallivan
    57 Golden Hawk
    Golden, CO
    [/quote

    No, the front fenders were not even on your car when they were painted. I have found a great deal of difference in the amount of color/exterior paint on inner fenders of the late 50s and '60s Studebakers. It all depended on the line painter at the time. That is why some swear that their inner fenders were painted a different color than the exterior, when all they are really seeing is primer that was never covered well.

    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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  • Warren Webb
    replied
    No, they didnt paint the inner fenders with the engine in the car. Studebaker used real humans right to the end, unlike most other manufacturers of the 60's when, by then robatic arms did most of the spraying, at least on the outer surfaces. My first factory tour was the Linden New Jersey G.M. plant where the only parts that were done by men were the jambs (door,hood,trunk, ect) which was quite an experience since the robatic arms would spray a yellow car, followed by a black car without purging the spray head. One thing also I noticed there, the bodies of the cars were primered a different color than the front end sheet metal, so with just a certain amount of paint applied to both parts, with some colors that had alot less coverage, there was a mismatch between the front fenders & doors. That is somthing I never saw on a Studebaker. As a matter of fact, although we have alot of rust areas, especially in the front floors, the inner panels of our cars got alot more color than the "big 3" put on theirs.

    60 Lark convertible
    61 Champ
    62 Daytona convertible
    63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
    63 Avanti (2)
    66 Daytona Sport Sedan

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  • Gallivan
    replied
    Definitely a lot of good advice here- I'll have to print it up and take it to my paint man- this will be a copper metallic paint, so hopefully he has the stands and room to set it up as suggested. I'm thinking now it might be worth trailering the car over there and let him do the firewall and inner fenders, bring it back home and install the engine and rest of the sheet metal, and bring it back.

    By the way, they must have painted the car with the engine in place at the factory- the bottoms of my inners did not get fully sprayed and the original crayon markings are still there.

    Gallivan
    57 Golden Hawk
    Golden, CO

    Leave a comment:


  • bams50
    replied
    Thanks for the input. Your comments are well-taken by me (while mooching off Gallivan's thread)[:I]

    I'm leaning toward cutting in and hanging the panels and painting the car assembled. Past experience has shown me that gap and panel alignment can be a long, annoying, frustrating process. The procedure is usually fit, disassemble, paint, and re-fit, but this time with new paint on... They never seem to just pop back together correctly on the second assemble, which means a lot of effort duplicated...

    Still, it is a more thorough job t'other way.......



    Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
    Parish, central NY 13131

    "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

    "It was the last chance for Studebaker to turn things around. The company was down to its last bullet, and this new small car was it. They called it the Lark"



    Leave a comment:


  • Warren Webb
    replied
    Ray has some very valuable tips here. I also prefer to paint the exterior all at the same time, but before i do, I have the rear fenders off, paint the edges with Por 15, then jamb them in the exterior color, mount them on the body & caulk the edges where needed (rear upper & lower body panels, door jamb area, ect.

    60 Lark convertible
    61 Champ
    62 Daytona convertible
    63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
    63 Avanti (2)
    66 Daytona Sport Sedan

    Leave a comment:


  • Studeman
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by bams50

    Seems like high-end restorers paint the stripped shell inside and out, and the panels individually at the same time.
    BINGO!!!


    How do the rest of you do a Lark specifically? I would assume the rear fenders would be installed before paint...
    Yes, But the inside where the panels meet, and far inside where you can't reach, will be "trimmed-out" but not finished... After the REAR fenders are installed, the main bodyshell can be painted completely inside-out.

    the rest is what I'm wondering about...

    I have several stands that allow me to hang the doors right next to their door opening- and paint them fully (inside, outside, underside,+jambs) as the shell is painted. I also place the fenders and hood in their proper relationship to the shell- and paint them at the same time. Jumping from shell-to-fender-across hood-to fender..and back to the shell.
    This would be difficult for the home hobbyist due to the cost of the stands, and space needed to paint everything at the same time.
    Due to Studebaker's design, most Larks can be done differently without creating too much work. You can paint inside the trunk, underside of the hood & trunklid, and the door jambs before doing the rest. There are seams and areas where tape-lines won't show up once assembled.
    The firewall and inner fenders are a bit more problematic. I don't like taping them off. So I just plan ahead not to.







    Specializing in Studebaker Restoration

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  • Dick Steinkamp
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by bams50

    I've been trying to decide for my 62 Daytona (bare shell) whether to cut in the panels, (including firewall, inner fenders, inside trunk) and hang and adjust them and paint the car whole, or paint doors, fenders, nose, hood and decklid separately and hang afterward. Suggestions?
    Your first suggestion is a "must" for metallic paints. If you paint a door flat (for example) and a fender sitting up, they will probably look different when both are reattached to the car.

    This method will require masking twice. Not a big deal, but count on 8 hours or so to properly mask the car each time.

    The second method works well for non-metallic paints. It gives an overall better job (no masking lines, subtle color changes, overspray,etc), and only requires masking once (and less masking than the first option)

    For either method, you should make sure your gaps and panel alignment are where you want them, then blow the car apart for paint. Keep track of shims. You can drill tiny holes in hinges to realign them when reassembling.

    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA



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  • dong
    replied
    I agree about the overspray, but lots of paper and tape should alleviate the problem. Most of the overspray as well as the tape lines can then be hidden by the rubber mouldings.

    Don

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