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63 Lark wiper switch wire colors, locations needed

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  • 63 Lark wiper switch wire colors, locations needed

    I bought a 12v wiper motor to upgrade my '55 truck from 6v, and the motor happens to have come from a '63 Lark. Thing is, it's a 4-wire motor, and the ONLY switch that works is the white rocker switch from a '63 Lark (or a NLA later truck switch, or possibly a Hawk switch, if it used that 4-wire motor). I have ordered one from Chuck Collins, and before it gets here, I was wondering if any '63 Lark owners can tell me which color wires go to each of the four terminals. I'm assuming they are the same colors as the ones coming from the motor to the plug, and those same colors carry straight through to the switch. If that's not right, I'm sure you can set me straight.

    p.s. I sent this email request to our resident 16 yr old Studebaker nut, as he has a '63 Lark, but he's going to be unavailable for a few days. So, let's see what the older guys can come up with in the meantime.


    [img=left]http://simps.us/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter


    1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
    The Red-Headed Amazon

    Paul Simpson
    "DilloCrafter"

    1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
    The Red-Headed Amazon
    Deep in the heart of Texas

  • #2
    Actually Dillo, I was just thru this issue for someone else that I sold a late 12 volt motor to. Dang-it, I can't remember now, but I'm sure you can happily work this motor with your truck's original wiper switch. I'll have to go out and have a look-see again.[8D]

    Miscreant at large.

    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe
    1957 President 2-dr
    1955 President State
    1951 Champion Biz cpe
    1963 Daytona project FS
    No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, Biggsy, that may have been my question you answered several months ago, when I was trying to get this '63 Lark 4-wire motor to work with my old '55 truck 3-wire switch, then later with a '59 Lark 3-wire switch. I also got lengthy help from gordr, who was at his job site, and was working from memory at the time.

      However, I don't think it is possible to run this 4-wire motor from one of the afore-mentioned 3-wire switches, not even with the crafty use of a 12v relay, as gordr diagrammed for me. Here's why I believe this:

      The 12v, 3-wire wiper switch from a '59 Lark (and for that matter, the 6v, 3-wire wiper switch from the '55 truck) has these continuity combinations -
      Off - F & A
      Low - F, A & P
      High - A & P

      Every way I tried it, these switches would not work with the 4-wire motor. So, I did a web search for "wiper motor wiring" and came up with a well done set of diagrams and explanations for the 12v 4-wire motor in a Triumph TR6! As it turns out, the diagram looked essentially like the guts of the '63 Lark wiper motor, so I printed it and studied it carefully. See this extremely helpful set of diagrams here:http://www.vtr.org/maintain/wiper-problem.shtml Yep, that would work, I was convinced, so I looked for a switch that had the same combinations of continuity as in the Triumph diagrams. No luck finding such a switch anywhere.

      The next thing to do, which I should have done a long time ago, was to order a NOS wiper switch for a '63 Lark. When it arrived today, I looked for the same continuity combinations as the Triumph diagram, and found them!

      To record this for posterity, I borrowed the look of the Triumph diagram, and modified it for this 1963 Lark motor and switch, as seen below:

      Click image for a larger, printable view


      If anyone with a '63 Lark can verify the colors to the terminals on the switch as I have shown here, please chime in.

      Thanks, Biggsy and gordr, for the help. If you can figure out how to make this motor work with one of the older 3-wire switches, I'd like to know. But I'm betting it can't be done. If I'm right, I'll feel better about having had to pay for a NOS Lark rocker switch!


      [img=left]http://simps.us/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

      1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
      The Red-Headed Amazon
      Deep in the heart of Texas

      Paul Simpson
      "DilloCrafter"

      1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
      The Red-Headed Amazon
      Deep in the heart of Texas

      Comment


      • #4
        you could also use a switch from a late T-cab that might look more correct in your truck... I'm still not sure why you don't just get a 3-wire wiper motor, would be a direct bolt in and solve all your problems.

        nate

        --
        55 Commander Starlight
        62 Daytona hardtop
        http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
        --
        55 Commander Starlight
        http://members.cox.net/njnagel

        Comment


        • #5
          What year cars carried the 3 wire, 12 volt motor ?
          Klif

          55 Speedster
          42 Champ Coupe
          55 Speedster/Street Machine
          63 Avanti R2
          64 Convertible R1

          Comment


          • #6
            Nate, if I could have gotten a 3-wire, 12v motor back when I wanted one, I would have done that (in retrospect, but I didn't know there were differences back when I was looking for a 12v motor). Anyway, the point is moot now, as I've spent hours of time and frustration, approx. $90 and now have both a motor and a switch. Plus, I know a heck of a lot more now than I did before.

            If you had been through all I have done, to the point that you got all this to work and had documented it for future reference, why must you taunt me by saying, "I'm still not sure why you don't just get a 3-wire wiper motor". BECAUSE IT'S ALL DONE NOW! Sheesh, back seat drivers.

            [img=left]http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

            1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
            The Red-Headed Amazon
            Deep in the heart of Texas

            Paul Simpson
            "DilloCrafter"

            1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
            The Red-Headed Amazon
            Deep in the heart of Texas

            Comment


            • #7
              So it was you that prompted me to do that, eh? I was thinking it was dclewellen that asked me this question. in any event, looking at your diagram, it appears that if you took the black wire off that switch and connected it to the same terminal as the red wire, that would do it.
              The "park cam switch would get power all the time from the CB. When you flip the switch to the "off" position, the switch disconnects the red wire (high speed)BUT the power still goes to the high speed brush via the red wire/black wire combo. That is, until the park cam interrupts that power and the wipers stop (park)

              This is essentially what the original 3-wire setup does/did except that the internal wiring of the motor was different. I've wondered WHY they bothered to add a 4th wire to establish a park circuit in later motors and it might just come down to a different supplier choosing to do it differently.

              Geez, it was last summer that I figured this out. In fact, I took an early and late motor and an early and late switch and proved what I thought would work. ..... I think. I remember using the 58 wagon's 3-wire motor as a test vehicle.

              Prove it yourself. I don't think you can hurt anything. Try tying the red and black wire from the motor together and see if it doesn't park when you go to off.[^]

              Miscreant at large.

              1957 Transtar 1/2ton
              1960 Larkvertible V8
              1958 Provincial wagon
              1953 Commander coupe
              1957 President 2-dr
              1955 President State
              1951 Champion Biz cpe
              1963 Daytona project FS
              No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

              Comment


              • #8
                Okay, Bob, I tried what you suggested. The result was interesting. There was a very noticeable "stutter", or hesitation in the motor's rotation every time it passed by the "window" in that brass disc that lies atop the drive gear. (Since the black and green wires go to the same piece of brass that lies on top of that gear, they are electrically the same point, EXCEPT for a brief moment in each rotation when a gap in the brass passes under the green contact point.)

                For some reason, I don't get that stutter when it is wired as in my diagram, although I do hear a little something that tells me it is passing by that window.

                Maybe I should obtain a "1549566 Wiper Switch, All 1960-62 Larks; All 1960-1962 Champ trucks" as Nate suggested, if I want to go for a more original look in the cab (as opposed to a white rocker switch).

                But, then I'll have to sell my '63 Lark wiper switch and my '59 Lark wiper switch. Oh, decisions. Heck, maybe I'll sell the '59 switch, buy the one for Champ trucks, and keep the '63 Lark switch as a backup for the 1963 Lark I hope to find any buy someday!

                [img=left]http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

                1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                The Red-Headed Amazon
                Deep in the heart of Texas

                Paul Simpson
                "DilloCrafter"

                1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                The Red-Headed Amazon
                Deep in the heart of Texas

                Comment


                • #9
                  "There was a very noticeable "stutter", or hesitation in the motor's rotation every time it passed by the "window" in that brass disc that lies atop the drive gear."

                  In the OFF position or in HIGH position?[:I]

                  Miscreant at large.

                  1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                  1960 Larkvertible V8
                  1958 Provincial wagon
                  1953 Commander coupe
                  1957 President 2-dr
                  1955 President State
                  1951 Champion Biz cpe
                  1963 Daytona project FS
                  No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The motor stuttered, or actually seemed to stop and restart, in both the low and high positions. I'm sure it isn't meant to work that way. When wired according to my diagram (the wiring of which I borrowed from that Triumph website) you could faintly hear a little bump each time it passed that window on the brass disc, but the motor speed stayed constant. I suppose that's because continuity flows through that "B" terminal only when the switch is powered down to the "off" position.

                    [img=left]http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

                    1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                    The Red-Headed Amazon
                    Deep in the heart of Texas

                    Paul Simpson
                    "DilloCrafter"

                    1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                    The Red-Headed Amazon
                    Deep in the heart of Texas

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nate said, "you could also use a switch from a late T-cab that might look more correct in your truck..."

                      My Reply: I wish I had figured that out before, but I didn't know the motor was a 4-wire in those 1960 and later T-cab trucks. I hope I can find a deal on one of those T-cab wiper switches.

                      Klif asked, "What year cars carried the 3 wire, 12 volt motor ?
                      "

                      My Reply: Klif, from what I can tell, 1956-59 cars and trucks used a 12v, 3-wire motor. At least that's what the wiring diagrams at Chuck Collins' http://www.studebakerparts.com seem to indicate. Chuck also said the '63 Hawk used a 3-wire motor.


                      [img=left]http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

                      1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                      The Red-Headed Amazon
                      Deep in the heart of Texas

                      Paul Simpson
                      "DilloCrafter"

                      1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                      The Red-Headed Amazon
                      Deep in the heart of Texas

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK, now I gotta ask if the motor stopping and starting (seemingly) was without it driving any blades. I ask because without the drag of the blades, the motor CAN overrun the stop cam and continue to cycle - overrunning it repeatedly.

                        Miscreant at large.

                        1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                        1960 Larkvertible V8
                        1958 Provincial wagon
                        1953 Commander coupe
                        1957 President 2-dr
                        1955 President State
                        1951 Champion Biz cpe
                        1963 Daytona project FS
                        No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No blades loading it down. This was all done on the bench with a 12v power supply.

                          When I tested it as in my diagram, it ran fine at both low and high speeds, and it "parked" appropriately after the switch was moved to the "off" position.

                          With the red and black wires joined, as you suggested I try as an experiment, it ran at low and high speeds, but you could hear the motor give up then start up again when running at those speeds, every time it crossed that stop window on the brass disc. And when I moved the switch to the "off" position, no matter which speed it was running at prior to that, the motor would run at least two revolutions at high speed, bucking when crossing the window, and then stopping, or sometimes, not ever stopping until I removed power.

                          And that's what happened.

                          [img=left]http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

                          1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                          The Red-Headed Amazon
                          Deep in the heart of Texas

                          Paul Simpson
                          "DilloCrafter"

                          1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                          The Red-Headed Amazon
                          Deep in the heart of Texas

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't think *all* T-cabs used a 4-wire wiper motor, only the later ones, maybe 64 only? or 63-64? check the wiring diagrams at studebakerparts.com maybe that will shed some light on the subject. I just know that this came up before as I had to rewire a T-cab and the NOS wiring harness that was available had a 4-wire wiper motor plug in it, it was no big deal though as the wiper motor in the truck was toast anyway. I am trying to remember what I used for a wiper switch, I think maybe one from a GT Hawk? That would be a toggle switch not a pull knob, it didn't look quite right but it got the job done. In any case I was just trying to use what I had on hand and worked as I was most definitely not restoring the truck. I still think it might be easier to find a 3-wire motor, but it's up to you what you want to do.

                            good luck,

                            nate

                            --
                            55 Commander Starlight
                            62 Daytona hardtop
                            http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                            --
                            55 Commander Starlight
                            http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I called SASCO today. They said the 63-64 T-cabs used a pull-on switch for the 4-wire wiper motor, but they are out of stock. He said enough others have done what I'm doing (put a later, 4-wire, 12v motor in a formerly 6v truck) that they sold all those wiper switches. [V]

                              [img=left]http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

                              1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                              The Red-Headed Amazon
                              Deep in the heart of Texas

                              Paul Simpson
                              "DilloCrafter"

                              1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                              The Red-Headed Amazon
                              Deep in the heart of Texas

                              Comment

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