Rear main seal

[studecruiser]

The rear main seal is leaking on the 289 63 Hawk, the oil pan gasket is also leaking. Is it possible to repair the seal with the engine in the car or does it have to be removed? Never did this before. Any help, as always, is appreciated.

[PackardV8]

Some will say it is impossible to permanently repair the leaking rear main seal in or out of the car. Most leak sooner or later. An experienced mechanic with a seal snake can replace it in the car. It ain't easy the first time one tries it, since it is impossible to see if the top of the groove is completely clean. Even experienced mechanics don't always stop the leak the first try.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

[hopinfox]

I JUST REPLACED THE REAR MAINSEAL AND PAN GASKET ON MY 64 HAWK. NOT TOO HARD ALTHOUGH LIKE MOST THINGS IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER TO DO AFTER HAVING DONE IT ONCE. THERE ARE PLENTY OF ADVICE ON THE FORUM. HARDEST PART IS GETTING OLD SEAL OUT. I WAS TO TIMID AT FIRST USING A 'SNEAKY PETE' TOOL DID NOT DO IT. I FINALLY JUST PUSHED AND PULLED UNTIL IT FINALLY CAME OUT WITH NEEDLE NOSE PLIERS IN OPPESITE DIRECTION SNEEKY PETE SAID TO REMOVE. PAN GASKET I GLUED IN PLACE USING FORMAGASKET #4. JUST FOLLOW THE SHOP MANUAL AND IT ALL COMES CLEAR AS YOU DO IT. SO FAR NO LEAKS ON MINE. GOOD LUCK. MIKE

M.hopinfox/Kennesaw,Ga.
62 Hawk
63 Champ
64 Commander
64 Hawk

[rockinhawk]

When I got my 63GT in '92, every seal it had was leaking. I replaced most of them without removing the engine. I slowed it down from a flood to a drip. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.

[mbstude]

If it ain't leakin', it must be empty!

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

[Chicken Hawk]

Something to think about. Could it be that we are always hearing about how much Studes leak because they are 50+ years old now.

I remember when I was a teenager dad bought a '50 Champion, then a '51 Commander, then a '55 Commander, then a '58 President, then a '63 Cruiser and I had several also during those years and I don't recall any of them being "leakers".

I have had several years now the 61 truck hauler, the Tomato, the '51 and kept the Wrapper here and none of them leak and the Tomato and Wrapper have had synthetic oil in them. Granted, the truck, Tomato and '51 have been rebuilt but the truck was in mid 80's and the Tomato about 8 years ago.

I wonder if those that have had new seals replaced and still leak were done by experienced people?

True, my '62 Cruiser does leak some but it has the original 259 engine that has never been apart as far as I know and I've had it over 20 years and it is now 47 years old so I guess the warranty has run out.

I wonder how brand x's would fair if we could find those that are as old?

Just kinda bothers me when I keep hearing about this, sorta like replacing the engine with another brand because "can't get parts" or "can't make power".

I'll shut up now.

Ted

[53k]

quote:Originally posted by rockinhawk

When I got my 63GT in '92, every seal it had was leaking. I replaced most of them without removing the engine. I slowed it down from a flood to a drip. NT

We had a neat man in our Potomac Chapter- a doctor, born in Germany. He loved Studebakers from seeing a '50 Champion Starlight Coupe in the Berlin Auto Show in 1950 (he said he had to sneak in- couldn't afford the admission). Anyhow, whenever he would hear someone joke or complain about Studebakers leaking oil, his response was "they have to put drip pans under the cars in the Mercedes Museum".
BTW- he died several years ago in his early 80s from complications from a tooth removal[V]. RIP "Doc" Dietmar Schieldwachter.


Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine
1962 Gravely Model L (Studebaker-Packard serial plate)
1972 Gravely Model 430 (Studebaker name plate, Studebaker Onan engine)

[hank63]

You folks should experience a British car. They were designed and built around the biggest and most persistent oil leak they could conjure up.
/H

[rusty nut garage]

i'm with Ted. These cars don't have to leak. If your not afraid to spend some $ or get some grease in your eyes they can be all but eleminated.
I just went thru a T96od out of a 20Ksomthing documented mile champion. The complaint was leaks. That thing leaked more then any tranny I've seen, out of everywhere possible. The inside of the trans looked like tar. I had everything hot tanked at a tranny shop. The internals are perfect, very little wear, event 1st/reverse gear that normally rounds the ends of the teeth look almost perfect. Leaks were obviously a result of 55years of life.
Russ

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Hawk

Something to think about. Could it be that we are always hearing about how much Studes leak because they are 50+ years old now.

I remember when I was a teenager dad bought a '50 Champion, then a '51 Commander, then a '55 Commander, then a '58 President, then a '63 Cruiser and I had several also during those years and I don't recall any of them being "leakers".

I have had several years now the 61 truck hauler, the Tomato, the '51 and kept the Wrapper here and none of them leak and the Tomato and Wrapper have had synthetic oil in them. Granted, the truck, Tomato and '51 have been rebuilt but the truck was in mid 80's and the Tomato about 8 years ago.

I wonder if those that have had new seals replaced and still leak were done by experienced people?

True, my '62 Cruiser does leak some but it has the original 259 engine that has never been apart as far as I know and I've had it over 20 years and it is now 47 years old so I guess the warranty has run out.

I wonder how brand x's would fair if we could find those that are as old?

Just kinda bothers me when I keep hearing about this, sorta like replacing the engine with another brand because "can't get parts" or "can't make power".

I'll shut up now.

Ted

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[PackardV8]

Greetings, Ted,

quote: Could it be that we are always hearing about how much Studes leak because they are 50+ years old now.

My respect for your accomplishments is boundless and oft-stated on this forum. Your first-hand knowledge of Studebaker V8s is second to none. We all here share your love for the Studebaker V8 engine.

Having said this, can ANYONE with a modicum of engineering aptitude look at the Studebaker V8 front and rear crankshaft seals and oil pan gasketing without imagining better designs? The rear seal with SIX fiddly, hand-fitted pieces? The front cover and seal with no drainback and the front pan filler aluminum block with the holes usually stripped? All these myriad poorly-engineered puzzle pieces guaranteed leaks as the car ages.

Sixty years of hindsight is always a benefit, but love of the marque can't sufficiently blind one to the few failings which seemingly should have been obvious on the drawing board in 1950. Even if they got it wrong the first time, why weren't these problem areas re-designed as they manifested themselves early on? The cost would have been minimal, so why not fix it? It's as if no one cared.

Many students of Studebaker history feel the decision to end auto production was made in 1955-56, when Packard was killed off. The imminent demise of S-P was a lead story throughout the automotive press of the day. An example is the headline from the lead editorial in the June 1956 Motor Trend,

"Will It Be the "Only 3"? Rumors of the troubles that the Studebaker-Packard Corp. finds itself in are flying hot and thick around Detroit automotive circles and at stock exchanges in principal cities all over the country. It's no secret that they're in trouble-serious trouble."

The subsequent plans of the Curtiss-Wright caretakers were well on the way to finding the least-costly path out of the dealer contracts, union pension agreements and so on. Then, the recession of '58 and the small success of the Lark gave them three or four years to shake out still more dealers and reduce the workforce still further. And that's the long answer to why the last Studebaker V8's sold in 1964 still leak oil.

PackardV8

[jackb]

.....just a memory note.,..a few TW issues back, well maybe a year ago, there was a front or back cover showing a fleet of brand new South Bend police cars from 1959. If you look closely, you'll see the oil puddles under the new cars.....

[Warren Webb]

Hank63's remark reminds me of what a former Rolls Royce service manager once told me. "Rolls dont leak, they have engineered controlled seapage."

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

[StudeMann]

53K,

You might be interested to know that a 54 Champion Starliner is for sale on EBay right now that had been purchsed from the estate of the good Doctor you referred to in your post.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270255527328&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:CA:1123

The car is in Lexington,VA.

"Ahh, a bear in his natural habitat...a Studebaker!"
Fozzie Bear in 'The Muppet Movie'

51 Land Cruiser (Elsie)
Jim Mann
Victoria, B.C.
Canada

[Chucks Stude]

Things change with time. Wasn't there a time when a rope seal was state of the art? I remember building Stude engines back in the 60's and 70's, and they didn't leak any worse than anything else at that time.
I remember parking my white car about 50 feet behind a B-17, that was on display. The weather turned ugly, and they decided that they needed to move the B-17. It took weeks to clean all of the oil off of my car after they ran up the B-17. I guess all things are relative.