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Engine Oil and Zinc...yada yada yada..

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  • Engine Oil and Zinc...yada yada yada..

    Here's a teaser for our marque...
    I spent a good part of today at a HD truck dealer open house plying my trade...
    The guy in the next 'booth' was the senior technical trainer (ie: real smart guy chemical engineer) for Chevron Oil (1 of 4).
    We chit chatted (of course) about the Texaco connection to Chevron and my Texaco follies from late last year... Then I peppered him with all of the zinc of the week questions I could come up with.
    Turns out he is an Austin car guy and is active in the Austin car club. He has written several informative articles for their group (without marketing hype) regarding the 'new' oils, the 'old' oils, the 'zinc' issues, and what the market is hyping to the old car folks...
    It was a real eye opener, and I learned a whole bunch.
    Without spewing my newfound knowledge on y'all, I asked hime if he would be willing to 'share' what he has already written for the Austin club, or write something specific for the Studebaker Drivers Club. He said he would be glad to do this.
    So, if I am able to pry some of this info out of him for us all, I think it will be well worth it for us.
    But, in the mean time.. Here's a tidbit...
    Shell Rotella diesel oil... "Why in the world would anybody run diesel oil in a gas engine?"
    Zinc supplemental additives: "Ask the oil manufacturer if they will stand behind their oil 'if' you add a zinc suppliment to their oil....They won't.."
    Zinc 'reduction' in current oil: "Zinc hasn't been totally removed from current oils... It has just been reduced. Other compounds have been added to the oil to prevent scuffing problems.
    Oil testing: The current test method (latest and greatest...I don't recall the official test number right now)is done on a Nissan flat tappet engine.
    (What does this mean?)
    It means that the latest engine oil sold today will NOT wipe out your camshafts or tappets.
    It means that adding a supplement will not make things magically better...
    It means that the engine oils marketed as 'vintage engine oils' are no better than any other oil, but are a whole bunch more expensive...
    20w50 oil is fine to use in older engines, as the 20w 'cold pour point...(at 0 degree's)will be just fine in older engines. The 50 number actually 'seems' more like 30w due to the long polymer chain additive that gives it the higher number...
    As you can probably read here.. i asked a LOT of questions, and did my best to soak it all up...
    Gospel?
    Don't know, but I asked for some follow up from him to help us all out with good info... Biased info? Maybe, don't know, probably not.
    He didn't have anything to gain by trying to sell me anything.
    I found it fascinating...
    Hope the info helps...
    Jeff[8D]


    http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff


    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

  • #2
    Good information. I use Shell Rotella T in my 49 Champ and have had good luck. Of course it isn't driven a lot (around 3000 miles per year)

    Bob

    Robert L. Hutchins

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    • #3
      Interesting Jeff... thanks for the post - glad to here nothing negative about the Castrol 20W50 Syntec I'm using in the Transtar.

      <h5>Mark
      '57 Transtar Deluxe
      Vancouver Island

      Are you planning to attend the NW Overdrive Tour in Parksville, BC
      May 23-25, 2009?
      </h5>
      Mark Hayden
      '66 Commander
      Zone Coordinator
      Pacific Can-Am Zone

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm Just sitting here, on my comfy Wheel Horse mower, having a vintage can of Drewry's and Visualizing Whirled Peas and The Austin Car Club. Since Austin, like Seattle, is notoriously Progressive, I s'pose the Club members all drive electric cars, which have Motors & thusly negates the need for Zinc required by Engines. So, I conclude that the discussion with your new friend was purely academic. But, it is fun to talk about.

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        • #5
          Proverbs 1:7

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          • #6
            Nothing at all negative about that oil..
            His point was that the new 'reduced zinc' oils were to prevent aftertreatment problems (catalytic exhaust filters)..
            He said that using the current 'high mileage' oils available would give you the cam protection needed, due to the 'other' additive package items put in to substitute what zinc provided.
            He did caution that a lot of the additive packages or supplemental additives do help that issue, but bring corrosion issues with them.
            He said that there is more damage done in collector car engines because of 'sitting' (non-running). He said the more corrosive additives can damage the 'softer' metals.
            Can you say shell bearings? (rod & main)...
            A very interesting technical meeting.
            Jeff[8D]


            quote:Originally posted by Mark57

            Interesting Jeff... thanks for the post - glad to here nothing negative about the Castrol 20W50 Syntec I'm using in the Transtar.
            http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

            Jeff


            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting, Jeff...

              When the big add-lead-to-your-gas-or-destroy-your-valves scare came out, I read carefully. I'm not an expert in this area, and what the "experts" were saying sounded plausible, but something just didn't feel right about it- although I had no facts to back my feeling. Turned out that I never used lead additives, and have never had a problem; and upon further investigation those who showed valve problems always were traced to other causes- like normal wear.

              I have that same feeling for this zinc business... but like the lead issue, I'll keep watching and listening.



              Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
              Parish, central NY 13131

              "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

              "With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"



              Comment


              • #8
                Jeff, I looked at the store, and we do indeed have 20W50 Castrol on the shelf.

                Matthew Burnette
                Hazlehurst, GA


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                • #9
                  Like I've mentioned before..........been using Castrol GTX 20/50, in my 259 for the last 8 (or so) years with no failures! This IS my proverbial....daily driver, 2 miles or 200 miles!

                  No one wanted to take it seriously!
                  Funny how this all comes full circle eventually!

                  Mike

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We all have our favorites. As I've said numerous times, I'm a firm believer in Mobil 1. Some like Castrol, others Rotella, Red Line or Amsoil. I've used nothing but M1 since 1989 (bought a new Taurus SHO) and have never had an oil problem. Also as mentioned before, 20W50 is exempt from zinc reduction. This is for all brands.

                    Talking oil is well and good, but it won't change what someone will put in their car. Talking about gasoline, oil, filters or tires is like talking about sex, politics or religion. It stirs passions but in the end it doesn't change a dang thing.



                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Tom - Mulberry, FL

                    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

                    Tom - Bradenton, FL

                    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                    1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Talking oil with gearheads is like talking religion or politics with normal people...

                      Daddy always said, if yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough & I'm one tough sumbitch!
                      -------------------
                      Daddy always said, if yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough & I\'m one tough sumbiatch!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, all this time on the zinc and I use Rotella in both the truck and the Lark. The Lark in particular as in the 8 years being daily driven I have never had an engine blow, sling sludge, jump out of the bay, or tear down for a rebuild. Anyway, in cases with machines reliant on another item like this, in particular where I never done it before, like I told one of our neighbors, I'll use the whatever(ie Rotella) until the contraption breaks, then I won't use it no more. Which is why I ditched the Mobil 1 and went back to the traditional standby on the Paxton. Profess your wonders to someone else, I don't feel like going through another 700 dollar incident again, lol.
                        1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                        1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                        1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                        1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:Originally posted by torker

                          I'm Just sitting here, on my comfy Wheel Horse mower, having a vintage can of Drewry's and Visualizing Whirled Peas and The Austin Car Club. Since Austin, like Seattle, is notoriously Progressive, I s'pose the Club members all drive electric cars, which have Motors & thusly negates the need for Zinc required by Engines. So, I conclude that the discussion with your new friend was purely academic. But, it is fun to talk about.
                          Another Wheel Horse owner, excellent!!![8D]

                          I think he meant "Austin Car Club" as in the British import, Austin-Healey etc., not Austin, TX.

                          I've seen that article and read numerous other recent articles and almost everyone seems to be reaching the same conclusion now, the old levels of ZDDP are only really necessary during break in of a flat tappet cam, once the cam is broken in run whatever you want.

                          Analog man in a digital world.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Interesting how opinions change. In a previous thread I noted that the zinc issues was over blown. This is the expert advice provided. Guess he has chnged his mind.


                            "DEEPNHOCK
                            Commander Member

                            USA
                            3509 Posts
                            Posted - 04/17/2008 : 3:04:53 PM
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Well, That's a hoot...
                            Is that what you do with your Stude's?
                            Show circuit trailer queen?
                            Ok for you, I guess.
                            I, for one, drive mine a lot.
                            (This is a drivers club...)
                            And if the oil companies reformulated their oil compounds for later engines with roller cams, and the new oil will damage my camshaft....
                            Do you think I am going to wait around and do nothing until my cam is shot?
                            Or just say it won't happen to my cam because it hasn't happened yet?
                            (and Stude camshafts aren't reproducing real well right now)..
                            Your attitude may serve you well, but it does not help the majority of active Studebaker drivers.
                            While I won't get into a frenzy of oil anxiety, I will buy an oil that suits my needs and does the job.....well.
                            Just my opinion.
                            Jeff

                            "

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for sharing Jeff,

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