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champion 6 bell housing swap?

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  • champion 6 bell housing swap?

    hope Im not driving you guys crazy with all these questions. I am as I said totally new to studebaker and sure do appereciate all the info you guys share with me. now , my next question! my champ truck has the starter down and on the left side of the motor and my replacement motor has the starter up on the drivers side of the motor.I may end up having to swap bell housings back to my truck bellhousing for clearance reasons. I was told by someone that on champion 6's that the bell housing is somehow alligned to the block and you dont want to swap bell housings from motor to motor because you will get things out of alignment. you should keep the bellhousing on the motor it came with if ya know whats good for ya! anyone else ever heard this?

  • #2
    Partly true. If you CAN use the motor's original bellhousing in your application, it's best to do that. Say, if you are swapping engines between two similar cars.

    That option is not open to you if you are swapping engines from a car to a truck, so what you have to do is dial-indicate the bellhousing so that the transmission mounting hole is concentric with the crankshaft. The procedure is written up in all the shop manuals, and you can can probably find plenty of info here if you use the search function. It's not particularly hard to do.

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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    • #3
      so you are saying that the big hole in the back of the bell housing where the trannys input shapt goes through has to be centered on the back of the crank shaft? is there even enough slop in the bell housing to block bolt holes to make a difference? the car block has locating dowels to center it and the truck bellhousing used these weird bolts with a raised machined surface to locate the bell housing but none of these bolts or dowels were cammed and they were very tight in the holes.?? how does one move anything around[?]

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      • #4
        first off, don't be put off asking any questions here. Anyone who's tired of hearing new folks ask old questions should recall when they were a newbie and think of the last time they told a new member at a club function to buzz off because they had heard "that" question a thousand times....On the other hand, Gord has directed you to the search function which should get you started in your quest for "more" info which you can follow up on at a later date....I think his references to the shop manual & the search use will help...come back with follow-up questions.

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        • #5
          The dowel pin/dowel bolt holes were not jig-drilled as they were on competing brands. The bellhousing was centered on the crankshaft, presumably by use of a purpose-built fixture, and the dowel holes individually drilled, so no two bellhousings are necessarily identical.

          There is enough slop on the regular bolt holes to get significant concentricity error, enough to cause clutch and transmission problems, and broken flex plates on automatics, if a replacement bellhousing is not properly dial-indicated.

          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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          • #6
            so its safe to say that if you even remove an original bell housing from its original motor there may be enough slop in the bolt holes to get you enough out of alignment to cause problems? and what about the transmission to bellhousing mounting area? is this a more precision fit or can it also cause alignment issues? my current problem is that I have a pre 55 car motor and a post 55 truck transmission and the 2 have a different bolt pattern . I am wondering if the early cars bell housing will bolt up to the late truck transmission and will the cars bell housing with its starter on the opposite side side even fit in my truck or should I just be looking for a pre 55 truck bell housing?

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            • #7
              ok , got both trannys out and on the ground now and the pre 55 170 flat head car motor motor will not work with the 1960 truck 170 bell housing "and".... the car bell housing will not bolt up to the truck tranny , so I'm basically s*#% outa luck unless there is a pre 55 truck bellhousing that will bolt up to my transmission. anyone got one?? $$$$$???

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              • #8
                I should have several pre-'55 truck bellhousings, but they would be heavy iron to ship, and I'm in Alberta, Canada. What model truck is this going into, again?

                Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                • #9
                  well its a 60 champ 5e5 truck with a 1951 motor bolting up to a 1960 3 speed. I would also need the plate that goes between the motor and bell housing. maybe with your help we can do a little measuring and make sure this will even work before we ship it .

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                  • #10
                    quote:Originally posted by gordr

                    I should have several pre-'55 truck bellhousings, but they would be heavy iron to ship, and I'm in Alberta, Canada. What model truck is this going into, again?

                    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                    It was a 1960 Champ 1/2 ton Gord.

                    <h5>Mark
                    '57 Transtar Deluxe
                    Vancouver Island
                    </h5>
                    Mark Hayden
                    '66 Commander
                    Zone Coordinator
                    Pacific Can-Am Zone

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                    • #11
                      the one on the left has the truck bolt pattern I need and the starter on the bottom right, the one one the right is a car bell housing

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                      • #12
                        I'm glad I'm not the only one who has dealt with the car/truck 170/245 dilemma. As far as dialing in the bellhousing, I put it together and see how far off it is first. Sometimes you have to remove one pin to get it to bolt on. Check to make sure that the pins aren't mushroomed. On my truck I could use one pin as is but had to weld up and grind down the other pin to offset it. Are both those center holes the same size? I had to make a ring for mine and redrill the four bolt holes and tap them.

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                        • #13
                          Well, I will have a look tomorrow in the daylight. I should be able to find a bellhousing and a rear engine plate. Are you sure that the bolt holes in the two blocks are different? Mind you, the engine plates I have SHOULD fit an older 170 OK.

                          Your '60 Champ should have either a T86 or T90 transmission in it to match that very "square" bolt pattern on the bellhousing.

                          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                          • #14
                            totally different bolt pattern on the newer block and locating dowels are in the wrong place. I played with it for several hours today. no way it will work. sure appereciate you looking for me Gord.

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                            • #15
                              the square bolt pattern on the back of the bell housing where the tranny mounts up is is 5 3/4 tall by 5 15/16 wide from hole center to hole center by the way.

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