Exhaust: cast headers on 52 commander?

[Buffalobill]

do the high output r series cast headers clear the steering of a 1952 commander?

[StudeRich]

'52 Commanders that are original, have the Saginaw Manual Steering Gear a very good one, however it may be a bit larger than the Ross Type.

Sorry I do not know if R3 Headers will clear, they very likely will be very close if they do.
I would hope the Headers are going on a '55 to '64 or at least '55 and Later, Larger exhaust port Heads.

Mine barely clear the Saginaw Manual Box in my '54 Champion Starliner with a 299 V8, but that is Apples to Oranges, NOT the same.

[Buffalobill]

i have ross steering, not saginaw.

[gjamesk]

'52 Commanders that are original, have the Saginaw Manual Steering Gear a very good one, however it may be a bit larger than the Ross Type.

Parts book shows a running change to the Ross at serial 8816662. My '52 Commander 8824230 has the Ross gear.

Sorry, can't help with the header question.

[sals54]

Do the R series cast headers really qualify as high output? I'm not sure the flow rates are much better than stock manifolds. Not, at least without some major reworking with a grinder and enlarging of the outlets. And even at that, will they be enough to overcome the built in shortcomings of the Studebaker heads? This has been an ongoing point of contention ever since they were originally installed.

[bensherb]

But the "R" headers look cool Sal.

There are two different Ross boxes used by Studebaker. The SL-54 used in later cars (IIRC '58 up) is MUCH larger than the earlier TL-12.

The "R" series headers EASILY fit in my '62 with the big Ross SL-54 box, and with either the tall or short engine mount. One drawback to the "R" headers is, it's very difficult to use a headpipe any larger than 2" and even that requires some finesse. If real performance is the desired result, I'd recommend finding or building some tube headers with a larger collector. Perhaps a bit of tweaking of a Ford or Cadillac header.

[Buffalobill]

ive got the old headers off, they were beyond wasted. ive got a box of bends already. and a couple of used caterpillar filters for collectors.

ive planned on making my own, with the original flanges, im just mulling over different ideas in my head...

[PackardV8]

[quote]Sals54 asked: "Do the R series cast headers really qualify as high output? I'm not sure the flow rates are much better than stock manifolds. Not, at least without some major reworking with a grinder and enlarging of the outlets. And even at that, will they be enough to overcome the built in shortcomings of the Studebaker heads? This has been an ongoing point of contention ever since they were originally installed."

But the "R" headers look cool Sal.

Both for true. Yes, the R3 headers are all we have for the Stude and do bring a bit of bling. No, on stock heads through the mufflers, they add zero horsepower.

jack vines

[Buffalobill]

what about big valve heads, ported by nash? more than bling, or should i stick with building a new set of headers?

[PackardV8]

what about big valve heads, ported by nash? more than bling, or should i stick with building a new set of headers?

It's your car, so build it to suit yourself. Normally aspirated, through a full length exhaust system, I didn't find any horsepower increase.

Is the engine supercharged? If so, on a 305" supercharged with ported heads, into a full length exhaust system and mufflers, R3 headers might add ten horsepower. Really well built tube headers, maybe twenty.

jack vines

[sals54]

[QUOTE=PackardV8;1154544]

Sals54 asked: "Do the R series cast headers really qualify as high output? I'm not sure the flow rates are much better than stock manifolds. Not, at least without some major reworking with a grinder and enlarging of the outlets. And even at that, will they be enough to overcome the built in shortcomings of the Studebaker heads? This has been an ongoing point of contention ever since they were originally installed."Both for true. Yes, the R3 headers are all we have for the Stude and do bring a bit of bling. No, on stock heads through the mufflers, they add zero horsepower.

jack vines

All true fer sher... my only point was the "high output" part of the equation. That's all. I'm all for the bling, and am a party to it myself. I only have one "go fast" machine. All others are more for show than they are for go. So I'm totally on board for the looks.

[rkapteyn]

But the "R" headers look cool Sal.

There are two different Ross boxes used by Studebaker. The SL-54 used in later cars (IIRC '58 up) is MUCH larger than the earlier TL-12.

The "R" series headers EASILY fit in my '62 with the big Ross SL-54 box, and with either the tall or short engine mount. One drawback to the "R" headers is, it's very difficult to use a headpipe any larger than 2" and even that requires some finesse. If real performance is the desired result, I'd recommend finding or building some tube headers with a larger collector. Perhaps a bit of tweaking of a Ford or Cadillac header.

The SL-54 is a Saginaw box that Studebaker bought from GM after Ross went on strike and no steering boxes were available.Studebaker continued using Saginaw on Champions and after the strike , used Ross on the Commanders.

[bensherb]

The SL-54 is a Saginaw box that Studebaker bought from GM after Ross went on strike and no steering boxes were available.Studebaker continued using Saginaw on Champions and after the strike , used Ross on the Commanders.

My manual says nothing about it being a Saginaw box. I can't find a single photo of any Saginaw box even remotely similar to it, or using the Ross system or one remotely like it, they all use the typical Saginaw system. Nor can I find the notation, SL-54, in any reference to anything Saginaw. The large box works on the same system as the small TL-12 box, it's almost identical, just much more heavy duty. It and everything in it is about 30% larger. I'm pretty sure it even has ROSS embossed
on it's side cover. I'll have to look when I get home. I have both boxes, they're obviously different.

What strike do you refer to? Ross moved it's opperation from Detroit to Tennessee in late 1961. I can imagine that would reduce parts availability for a while.

Maybe Studebaker had license to the Ross design and had Saginaw produce it?

[sweetolbob]

My manual says nothing about it being a Saginaw box. I can't find a single photo of any Saginaw box even remotely similar to it, or using the Ross system or one remotely like it, they all use the typical Saginaw system. Nor can I find the notation, SL-54, in any reference to anything Saginaw. The large box works on the same system as the small TL-12 box, it's almost identical, just much more heavy duty. It and everything in it is about 30% larger. I'm pretty sure it even has ROSS embossed
on it's side cover. I'll have to look when I get home. I have both boxes, they're obviously different.

What strike do you refer to? Ross moved it's opperation from Detroit to Tennessee in late 1961. I can imagine that would reduce parts availability for a while.

Maybe Studebaker had license to the Ross design and had Saginaw produce it?

I'd be very surprised if Saginaw Steering Gear would tool up to produce a non-in house designed steering box. Particularly for such a small run when they already had units that would work. Back in those days, SSG was making boxes of their design for many vehicles and they were a division of GM.